Benjamin L. Corey

Benjamin L. Corey

BLC is an author, speaker, scholar, and global traveler, who holds graduate degrees in Theology & Intercultural Studies from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and received his doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller. He is the author of Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus, and Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith.

Critical Christian Principles to Remember in the Voting Booth

So you think Christians ought to be voting with biblical values in mind? Great, here's a few to consider.

Growing up Christian I was taught that the ultimate evidence our profession of faith in Christ was genuine and real was whether or not such a profession translated into our outward behavior and choices.

After all these years, that’s something I still believe to be true.

While we individually face decisions and choices every day that reveal whether or not our commitment to Jesus is true and real, each generation seems to find themselves at a moment in history when the authenticity of the entire group is tested… a moment not only in full public view, but one where history itself will forever record whether or not Christians were the people of Jesus, or total frauds.

For my generation, I believe with all my heart that one of those moments is upon is with the 2020 election– and that the witness of the Church itself is one of the issues to be decided.

In light of this moment dawning upon us, here are some timely and critical Christian principles that Christians in America should remember when they are in the voting booth this year:

Christians are called to prioritize the common good-- instead of just their own good.

When Paul instructed the earliest Christians, he gave them a strong directive: they were to reject the notion of rugged individualism where each person focused on their own needs, desires, and liberties, and that instead, Christians were called to be people who prioritized the needs of others:

“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.” Philippians 2:4

For those of us who profess to be Christians and who long to be loyal to the Christian faith as passed to us from the saints, we are called first and foremost to vote for what is in the common good, instead of what might simply be in our own good.

That means when we go to the ballot box, we need to be thinking of those in our society who are different than ourselves, and who face different life circumstances– and we need to humbly and thoughtfully cast our vote in a way that prioritizes their needs.

Christians are instructed to remember the needs of the poor.

While we are called to prioritize others and vote for the common good, Christians in particular are called to make sure they always remember the needs of the poor. And this isn’t some minor, ancillary part of being a Christian– it is at the foundation of being a Christian.

The Bible gives us some important details on the birth of the early Church. While Jesus of course picked his 12 disciples, later on it was the disciples themselves who picked new ones to welcome into the fold. When Paul was formally welcomed into the group by Peter, James, and John, he was commissioned and sent out as a disciple. Any when he was, the original disciples had one key thing that was of critical importance to them:

“James, Peter, and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.” – Galatians 2:9

So, if when the disciples of Jesus sent out new Christian leaders into the world with the critical reminder that whatever they do, they needed to remember the poor, we too would do well to stand in that ballot box and vote with the poor in mind.

Christians are to remember that the end doesn't justify the means.

Jesus famously said, “what would it profit a man if he got everything he wanted but lost his own soul in the process?”

Jesus was very clear that the end result doesn’t matter if your very heart and soul gets lost along the way.

If Jesus were speaking to us today, I imagine he might say something like, “But what good would it do if you got control of the Supreme Court itself, but totally destroyed the Christian witness to the world in the process?”

Christians are commanded to have no association with a particular type of professing believer:

Yes, Christians are called to love everyone, but the Bible is clear that there is a specific type of professing Christian where we are called to draw a hard line and have no association with them. That specific command was given to us by Paul in the book of 1st Corinthians:

“But I am writing to you that you must not associate with any professing believer who is immoral, who is greedy and a lover of money, idolatrous, verbally abusive and known for mocking and slandering others, a drunkard, and who extorts and swindles others for his own gain— do not even share a meal with such a person.”

In the early Church, they were taught that such a person is a total fraud and someone they should stay far away from. The idea that this passage would one day be a pretty close description of a person Christians would support for president would be unthinkable to the first Christians.

For those of us who still want to claim to be part of this faith, we have no business associating with a candidate who comes so close to fitting this description. 

Finally, when going to the ballot box, Christians *might* want to remember certain heaven or hell issues Jesus warned us about.

Heaven or hell issues– all those who grew up evangelical remember those. They were certain things that place you on the wrong side of Jesus, no matter how much you might claim to be a Christian.

But here’s a funny thing: Jesus actually tells us what the final judgement will be like, and tells us what those heaven or hell issues are. It’s an inconvenient passage in Matthew 25 where Jesus describes standing in front of a group of Christians and condemning them to eternal punishment. And the reasons? He’s perfectly clear:

Not feeding the homeless, clothing the naked, not speaking up for those locked in cages, and for refusing to welcome the refugee.

So when we vote, if we believe Jesus and believe that stuff about sin and judgement, we might wanna make sure we’re voting to feed the hungry and welcome refugees– because I don’t think he could make it any more clear that those things are absolutely heaven or hell issues.

So you’re a Christian and believe we’re supposed to remember biblical values when we vote?

Great– I am too.

These are just a few Christian values you might want to keep in mind, because there’s a lot riding on them– like maybe even a soul or two.

Benjamin L. Corey

Benjamin L. Corey

BLC is an author, speaker, scholar, and global traveler, who holds graduate degrees in Theology & Intercultural Studies from Gordon-Conwell, and earned his doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller.

He is the author of Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, and Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus.

It's not the end of the world, but it's pretty #@&% close. Trump's America & Franklin Graham's Christianity must be resisted.

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505 Responses

  1. It is just as evil, and just as effective, for the government to care for the poor as it would be for the Church to patrol the streets with guns attempting to maintain order.
    By advocating that the government care for the poor, you are abdicating Christ’s command to do so yourself. It is not now, nor can it ever be, the government’s job to care for the poor. That is the command Christ gave to you and to His Church!!! By letting the government do it, you are in direct disobedience to Christ. You are no less an unrepentant sinner than is a habitual adulterer.
    You may ask, “But what if the Church doesn’t do it’s job?” Do two wrongs make a right? Even if the Church didn’t do it’s job, it would not thereby make it permissible to allow the state to do the Church’s job.

    Would you want the state to perform Baptisms? Would you want the state administering Communion? Would you want the state teaching spiritual truth? Then what possible reason could you have for thinking it would be okay for the state to usurp the Church’s job of caring for the poor?
    Allowing the state to care for the poor REMOVES all love and compassion from the act of caring for the poor. It removes any possibility of a change in heart for either those being helped or those doing the helping. Allowing the state to care for the poor may be the one and only thing worse than not caring for the poor at all.
    The state’s job is clearly outlined in Romans 13. The state’s job is to use force to maintain order. Nothing more. The desire to have the state take care of the poor is in direct opposition to the message of Scripture and the Words of Christ.
    It is the government’s job to keep us from murdering each other. It is NOT the government’s job to take care of the poor. That is the job of the individual and of the Church. Or of whatever charitable group with whom you might wish to partner.

    I recommend Convoy of Hope, St. Jude’s, and The Innocence Project.

  2. It is just as evil, and just as effective, for the government to care for the poor as it would be for the Church to patrol the streets with guns attempting to maintain order.
    By advocating that the government care for the poor, you are abdicating Christ’s command to do so yourself. It is not now, nor can it ever be, the government’s job to care for the poor. That is the command Christ gave to you and to His Church!!! By letting the government do it, you are in direct disobedience to Christ. You are no less an unrepentant sinner than is a habitual adulterer.
    You may ask, “But what if the Church doesn’t do it’s job?” Do two wrongs make a right? Even if the Church didn’t do it’s job, it would not thereby make it permissible to allow the state to do the Church’s job.

    Would you want the state to perform Baptisms? Would you want the state administering Communion? Would you want the state teaching spiritual truth? Then what possible reason could you have for thinking it would be okay for the state to usurp the Church’s job of caring for the poor?
    Allowing the state to care for the poor REMOVES all love and compassion from the act of caring for the poor. It removes any possibility of a change in heart for either those being helped or those doing the helping. Allowing the state to care for the poor may be the one and only thing worse than not caring for the poor at all.
    The state’s job is clearly outlined in Romans 13. The state’s job is to use force to maintain order. Nothing more. The desire to have the state take care of the poor is in direct opposition to the message of Scripture and the Words of Christ.
    It is the government’s job to keep us from murdering each other. It is NOT the government’s job to take care of the poor. That is the job of the individual and of the Church. Or of whatever charitable group with whom you might wish to partner.

    I recommend Convoy of Hope, St. Jude’s, and The Innocence Project.

      1. When someone’s whole response is, “You’re so stupid,” but they can then offer no logic, facts, or reason to dispute my assertions, I must conclude that they have logic, facts, or reason to offer.

        If you have a logical argument to contradict my specific points, I would be happy to read it.

        1. Dude your post is so dumb, it makes anyone reading it dumber.

          Thankfully those of us who don’t live in an American conservative right wing echo chamber, are innoculated against your stupidity through experience and education.

          Like the government supporting people is evil is the dumbest thing I’ve read and that includes moronic Qanon stuff.

          Even Paul would be shaking his head and saying “you moron!”.

          You want to hearken back to the days of the Industrial Revolution and the Depression where government existed for the rich.

          You are clearly f**ked in the head.

          It shows that not only do you not understand the Bible, you don’t even understand the purpose of democratic government.

          It’s weird that secular people are more compassionate than Christians.

          But that’s why many of us wipe our feet of your ideology.

          1. So … somewhere in The Bible it says the STATE should support the poor? Gosh. I’d love to know where that is.

            Otherwise, the more you say, “This is dumb,” without providing support for thinking it’s dumb based on facts, logic, and reason, the more I am forced to conclude that you are one of those people to whom, “dumb” means, “Disagrees with my preconceived notions”.

            1. Israel was a state.

              Firstly a theocratic and agrarian one and then a monarchic state.

              And it was commanded to care for the poor.

              “At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied.” Deuteronomy 14:28-29

              Tithe = tax

              Anyone who bothers to read the Bible knows that.

              The Bible also says nothing about private corporations providing health insurance.

              Nor constitutions.

              Nor police forces.

              Nor guns.

              Maybe read the Bible some time.

              That way you won’t appear so dumb.

              Oh and we have social welfare because the world was like you wanted it to be. Where the poor had to fend for themselves and live off scraps thrown to them.

              And it was f**ked.

              “If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.” Proverbs 21:13

              Jesus – “You are truly a moron”. Facepalm

              1. Again … you’re pretending I said things I didn’t say. There’s just no point in trying to have a rational discussion with someone like that.

                1. “So … somewhere in The Bible it says the STATE should support the poor? Gosh. I’d love to know where that is.”

                  “But I didn’t say that”.

                  Run away….

                  Typical Conservative – just full of lies.

    1. We’ve tried leaving things to private charity for the last 237 years of our existence as a nation, with the result that we have one of the highest poverty rates of any developed nation. If the purpose were to get ordinary people and the rich to open their hearts and purses, the project has been a dismal failure. If the purpose were to insure better lives for the less fortunate, the failure is even more dismal.

      1. I don’t know what country you’re in, but in the US, the government took over the job of caring for the poor back in the late 30’s. And the poverty rate has steadily increased ever since. I don’t know what country you’re talking about leaving it to private charity, but it certainly isn’t the US.

        However, that’s really irrelevant. Whether having the state care for the poor is EFFECTIVE or not, it’s still IMMORAL!! The ends DO NOT justify the means. The state has no RIGHT to care for the poor, even if they could do so without mucking it up. And so far, here in the US, they’ve mucked it up in royal fashion.

    2. You would have poor people dependent on the fickle generosity of those better off rather than having a basic liveable income as a matter of right. I think that we should have a system in which people have basic needs met as a matter of right, with those who are able being required to provide some public service.

      1. “Basic liveable income as a matter of right?”

        Well … no. No I don’t agree that humans have some sort of inalienable right to a basic liveable income.

        An inalienable right is something we would have if government did not exist. The right to speak our mind, the right to worship as our conscience dictates, the right to make my own pointy stick so I can stab my neighbor Grog should he sneak into my cave some cloudless night … these are all rights we have from the time before governments existed.

        But “basic liveable income” requires the existence of a monetary system and a government (however primitive) to enforce its acceptance by the population. So no … a “basic liveable income” is not an inalienable human right. Not in the slightest.

        That’s precisely why Christ described it as an act of love for those who have means to give of those means to those who do not have such means.

        It is our obligation, as followers of Christ to GIVE. It is NOT the right of anyone to HAVE. Those are two very different things.

          1. Hast thou not heard? Dost thou not know?

            ‘Tis better to give than to receive. He who receives charity benefits materially. He who gives charity benefits spiritually, and thus benefits more.

            The money a man gives to the poor will be used up buying the necessities of this world. And that’s okay. But the treasures laid up in heaven will last forever.

            After reading another post of yours, I see a little more of what you’re getting at.

            “Charity” or “Love” in the Christian sense is a sincere interest in the other person’s welfare. To be Christian Love/Charity, that must be the reason we give. If we give in order to get the benefit, that it isn’t really Love. It isn’t really Charity. Certainly, if we are giving just to get some sort of good feeling, then we’ve missed the point of Charity/Love entirely!

            Our giving must be out of a sincere interest in the other person’s well being. If we are doing it just to get the Spiritual Benefit, then it is really only ourselves we are interested in, and then that “good feeling” you mention in the other post is the only rewared we will get.

            1. You must admire the prosperity preachers doing penance by keeping all their money for themselves.

              1. What could I possibly have said that would make you think I have any admiration for the demonic heresy that is the prosperity gospel?

        1. Do you have a right to a fair trial or not?

          Do you have a right to education or not?

          According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

          Article 25
          Right to adequate standard of living
          You have the right to have what you need so that you and your family do not go hungry, homeless or fall ill.

          1Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including foods, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

          2Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

          https://www.standup4humanrights.org/en/article.html?article=25

          I wonder if Jesus would agree with that?

          1. 1. Before I can consider the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to have any sort of authority, you’ll have to prove to me, using facts, reason, and logic, why I should. It’s a statement made by the U.N. about their opinion of what human rights should be. I simply do not believe the U.N. has any idea what basic human rights are. Until you can demonstrate, using facts, logic, and reason, that I should accept this document as any sort of authority, I reject it.

            2. No, I do not have a right to an education. An education is something that must be earned. Now, in the modern world, it is in the State’s best interests to ensure that the populace is educated in literacy, mathematics, science, and history. It is simply a matter of national security.

            A society, whether good or evil, which is educated in those areas will, as history has shown us, quickly and efficiently conquer a society which is not. History confirms this repeatedly.

            So, the State must educate its populace out of self-preservation. Not because anyone has a right to an education.

            3. My right to a fair trial is outgrowth of my natural human right to defend myself against accusers and to be presumed innocent of accusations until proven guilty whether those accusations take place in a state-run court room, or in the midst of a group of hunter-gatherers.

            4. Yes, Jesus would agree. He would say I have an obligation, before Him, to help those who need help out of love for them. Not because some global organization has declared they have some right to my help.

            My help for them must be out of love, not out of some societal obligation. I should help then even if it were to become illegal to do so.

            My obligation before God to help them must never be mistaken as conferring on them some sort of right to be helped by others. My help to them is a gift on my part. Not a right on theirs.

            1. 1. No wonder you hate human rights….

              “Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,”

              https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

              2. Bahahahahaha how does a 5 year old ‘earn’ an education?

              3. No, a trial is a result of government laws as opposed to summary execution.

              Gee all of a sudden you want the government to mandate a fair trial for you.

              4. So according to Jesus, people have a right to live with dignity and an adequate standard of living, but according to you, they don’t.

              As we can see, Christian ‘love’, doesn’t exist. You’re more upset about your taxes going to help people.

  3. The number of American dead from Trump’s bs has now passed the number of Hilary’s missing emails. Remember when one dead American was an issue eg Benghazi. All of a sudden 10s of thousands aren’t important anymore and they’ll smile and tell ya how biblical they are.

    Thats conservatives for ya.

  4. Herm darel • 2 months ago
    Wow, you deny who the Word is:
    =========================
    You lie, SINLESS Herm. Now, you will show everybody that you lied by your absence of any quote of me denying who the Word is.

    BTW, Jesus is God as v14 makes clear.

    Do you deny that Jesus is God, and that Jesus is the Word, SINLESS Herm?

    Will you ever recant this lie of yours and admit that you are a sinner?

    “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

  5. Herm darel • a day ago • edited

    Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV2011)

    There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
    =====================

    You lied SINLESS Herm, when YOU wrote:

    “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

  6. Herm darel • a day ago
    1 John 3:7-10 (NIV2011)

    Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
    ======================

    SINLESS Herm, were you aware that you cited the word of God and that Homosexuals can’t be Christians because they keep on sinning?

    1. But you can be a liar and a Christian and keep on sinning.

      Why is that?

      Do you think your shit doesn’t stink?

    2. Didn’t god create homosexuals? Didn’t god create babies born with both sets of genitals? Didn’t god create people who were born with one set of genitals but whose minds told them that they were of another gender?

      Who are you to say that god was wrong?

        1. Paul is indeed recorded as saying some things that seem to be against homosexuals, but not in the cited verse. The people of Sodom were condemned for their inhospitality to their visitors.

          There were certainly homosexuals in Judea in the 1st century, but Jesus is not recorded as saying anything about them. And Jesus was not shy about condemning usurers, hypocrites, etc.

            1. What happens to liars like you….

              But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

              Rev 21:8 is clear and simple language. I’m sorry that I can’t help you.

  7. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    ===================
    I ask, were you aware that you cited the word of God that proves Jesus is God?

  8. “So you think Christians ought to be voting with biblical values in mind?

    Well, that certainly eliminates all of the Democrats.

    1. Progressive by definition is Lawlwssness; do what you want when you want and ignore God’s Laws.The problem they have and hate is that most do not agree with them. So they want to elect people who share their same Lawlessness proclivities who can change social norms to accept Lawlessness as normal. This is what they mean by voting with Christian (their version) ideals in mind.

      1. That’s right, and their escape clause is that the Bible is NOT the word of God, but the word of men. They would like to say the Bible is the word of sinful men but sin is taboo in the liberal lexicon.

      2. That’s right, and their escape clause is that the Bible is NOT the word of God, but the word of men. They would like to say the Bible is the word of sinful men but sin is taboo in the liberal lexicon.

        1. The number of dead Americans has now passed the number of Hilary’s missing emails. Remember when dead Americans was important.

          1. Physical death was never really all that important, my friend. Even disregarding religion, death is inevitable and comes to us all. There are things far, far worse than mere physical death. And the depression I suffered during the lockdown, the first depression I had ever suffered in my 50 years, was far worse than mere death.

            The lockdown was wrong!!! Not because it didn’t save lives. Sure it did … in the short term. But because the long-term psychological damage, and economic setbacks, will cost more lives over the next decade than the virus ever could have.

            1. Interesting how Christianity has been just about YOU and not your neighbour.

              Those 500k dead don’t matter because you feel sad because you can’t go to church.

              What happened to christianity that it made christians into self absorbed pussies.?

              1. I was simply using myself as an example of how many people were affected by the lockdowns in ways that were just as bad as the virus would have been. It’s not “just about me”. It’s about a common, shared experience. One has to start out with a great deal of preconceived notions against another person in order to interpret that as “just about me”.

                I’ve been trying to be nice so far, but I think the ways in which you’ve interpreted my posts, not just this one, says far more about you than it does about me. I know that sounds cliché, but it’s cliché because it’s true.

                1. It is just about you, because you don’t give a f**k about the 500k dead.

                  It’s all about your feelings.

                  I wore a mask when I went out for 2 weeks because 10 people in my state had Covid.

                  Big deal!

                  I don’t want more people dying.

                  I wonder which of us is more like Jesus.

                  1. Everyone cares about the 500K dead. But what about all those who will die from homelessness, starvation, and depression caused by the economic spiral that will result from lockdowns? Do we care for them? That cycle will continue for years, and will very likely cost far more than 500K lives.

                    I don’t doubt you mean well. But I find it appalling that you don’t realize those who disagree with you also mean well. It is not somehow uncompassionate to be concerned about the millions who will die in the long run over the hundreds of thousands who will die in the short term.

                    Also, I don’t recall saying anything about masks. I think you’re doing that thing where you think people said what your preconceived notions expected them to say.

                    1. Your country spends more money on bombs (1.5 trillion) than you do on helping people.

                      All of a sudden government spending is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people. (Because you don’t want the government helping people because that’s evil)

                      You don’t mean well at all and you comment in bad faith. Neither are you honest.

                      All you care about is yourself.

      3. Must be why Jesus was a progressive, killed by those who wanted to uphold God’s laws.

        We can see why people like you would kill him.

        1. You aren’t REALLY trying to stuff, into human political ideological frameworks, a being who creates galaxies ex-nihlo by simply expressing His Word … are you? If you can say, “Jesus was {insert human political ideology here},” then you can’t truly understand Who/What Jesus was/is/forever shall be..

          Jesus was neither “Progressive” nor “Conservative”. He was/is/forever shall be far beyond such concepts. You may as well claim He played for your high school sports team as to claim He’s of your particular political ideology.

          1. Let’ssguess.

            You’re telling me the being who created galaxies ex-nihlo is a conservative American Christian who hates lockdowns and wearing masks and the unemployed getting welfare and free healthcare for sick people. Bahahahahahahaha

            Jesus was a progressive Jew.

            He sure the f**k was not fundamentalist NOR CONSERVATIVE.

            THAT’S WHY THEY KILLED HIM.

            You may as well claim He played for your high school sports team as to claim He’s of your particular political ideology.

            Seems someone’s made god in their own image.

            1. You were so convinced that I would claim Jesus was “Conservative” that despite me directly contradicting that assertion, you still think that’s what happened. In fact, it is not at all what happened.

              My whole point was that Jesus cannot be stuffed into human political labels or ideologies. But somehow, in your mind, that equated to claiming he was, “Conservative”.

              I find it fascinating that you can do that! I’d love to know more about how. It would be ever so useful to me if you could help me follow the chain of thought that leads you from my statement that human political labels cannot be applied to him to your belief that I somehow think He is “Conservative” … or “Fundamentalist”. Perhaps understanding your chains of thought work will facilitate further communication.

              1. Well we know Jesus’s politics because we know the Jewish schools of Judaism at his time. Namely the liberal Hillel school which actually quotes the words of Jesus and gave rise to rabbinic Judaism and the ultra conservative and fundamentalist Shammai school who were in power in the sanhedrin at the time of Jesus.

                Jesus was a progressive for his time.

                You’d hate him.

                Just like the other conservatives did.

                1. Yeah … I don’t think Jesus really cared what the Jewish schools of Judaism taught in His time. But I’ll take yoru post as an admission that I never claimed Jesus would be Conservative.

                  As for your assertion that I, or anyone else, would hate Him … I suppose anyone can make firm assertions about what anyone else would do in various circumstances. Seldom do those assertions have any validity.

                  1. Well he did care because he wasn’t raised in a vacuum.

                    The conflict between Conservative and progressive is timeless.

                    1. I never said He didn’t KNOW what the various schools of Jewish thought WERE. But … being Who and What He was/is/ever shall be, He was/is/ever shall be quite simply above them all. He demonstrated this in the Temple at the age of 12. His asking of questions was a technique Rabbis used to TEACH. He wasn’t seeking THEIR wisdom. He was imparting to them a tiny bit of His Own.

                      The Conflict between Conservative and progressive has only existed as long as humans have understood such concepts. That is not “timeless”, nor is it even close.

                      God The Son, however, is indeed Timeless. And has always been/currently is/and always will be above such notions.

  9. Herm Bob Shiloh • 2 days ago

    Jesus disagreed with much of the Law and the Prophets, while summing up what each chronicled relationship was and hung upon.
    ============================
    What a liar from hell you are SINLESS Herm!

    Name one law and one prophet of God that Jesus disagreed with. That’s just evil, SINLESS, Herm.

    Just a reminder of worse lie yet:

    “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

    1. Granted, Jesus is recorded as opposing those who kept the letter of the law but not the spirit. But regarding the dietary laws, he said that “you are not condemned by what goes into your mouth but by what comes out of it.”

  10. Herm darel • an hour ago • edited

    I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.
    ======================

    Herm, you are saying that you are not a sinner. You are saying that you never sin. You are saying that you have never sinned. You are saying that you are perfect. You are making yourself equal with Jesus Christ.

    You are a sanctimonious fraud, Herm.

    1. All the scripture hang on Jesus’ command to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and like that, love your neighbor as yourself. All children of God seek to love their enemy as does our Father, who is perfect. Read the Bible you hail as the only word of God you know, not having the word of God in you.

      1. As it is the Sabbath after Passover, the very day Jesus arose from the dead almost 2000 years ago, it is important for your salvation to quote Scripture correctly. Not interpret but quote it accurately. You can’t interpret Scripture if you can’t quote it correctly and in context. So let’s see the Scripture you mangled above and the one you constantly throw out there as if it is everything one needs to know:
        Matthew 22:40
        All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
        Matthew 7:12
        So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

        You could not quote these two scriptures relentlessly without the bible. They are written in the bible; they came from the bible. They are the words of Jesus found in the bible; Jesus is God.They are not the words of some ancient pagan plagiarized by Jesus.

        When you can explain to us why you quote the word of God as written in the bible while rejecting the bible as the word of God I will listen? This is your chance to prove to me that you are not possessed. Do not deflect; answer the question. The only question I will ask you.

      2. Herm darel • 11 hours ago

        All the scripture hang on Jesus’ command to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and like that, love your neighbor as yourself. All children of God seek to love their enemy as does our Father, who is perfect. Read the Bible you hail as the only word of God you know, not having the word of God in you.
        =======================

        Wrong again SINLESS Herm.

        It’s all the law, SINLESS Herm, All the law SINLESS Herm!

        You wrote the greatest lie a sinner ever wrote, SINLESS Herm:

        “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”
        =================

        You don’t need a Savior, SINLESS Herm, because you have never sinned! That’s the worse lie I have ever read from a sinner. Some might even say that you should be institutionalized. I say that you are so arrogant and such a sanctimonious fraud that you don’t mind making that asinine claim.

        1. Matthew 22:34-40 (NIV2011)

          Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

          “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

          Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

          darel, if you treasure your only “word of God” so much, you need to learn it!!!

          http://www.learnthebible.org/law-and-the-prophets.html

          All “the Law and the Prophets” is all the Old Testament scripture that Jesus’ referenced.

          Who’s teaching you your only “word of God”?

        2. What bs are you carrying on with now, Trump cultist?

          Its so funny seeing you accuse others of arrogance.

          Jesus spoke about you when he said you strain out a gnat while swallowing a camel.

          The only arrogant and sanctimonious frauds are you and your fellow Trump worshipper.

          Complete and utter hypocrites.

      3. As it is the Sabbath after Passover, the very day Jesus arose from the dead almost 2000 years ago, it is important for your salvation to quote Scripture correctly. Not interpret but quote it accurately. You can’t interpret Scripture if you can’t quote it correctly and in context. So let’s see the Scripture you mangled above and the one you constantly throw out there as if it is everything one needs to know:
        Matthew 22:40
        All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
        Matthew 7:12
        So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

        You could not quote these two scriptures relentlessly without the bible. They are written in the bible; they came from the bible. They are the words of Jesus found in the bible; Jesus is God.They are not the words of some ancient pagan plagiarized by Jesus.

        When you can explain to us why you quote the word of God as written in the bible while rejecting the bible as the word of God I will listen? This is your chance to prove to me that you are not possessed. Do not deflect; answer the question. The only question I will ask you.

        1. Bob, who made you so important to my Father’s will that you can set yourself up to be my judge, jury and executioner?

          Did I quote scripture above, or did I state a fact supported by the scripture you cleverly highlighted? What is not factual above as supported by scripture?

          Look up references to the “dove” in all four gospels and you will find each is written differently, not precisely the same. That is because the gospels were never intended to be taken verbatim.

          Okay, Bob, I am guilty as charged. I am possessed, by God as their little child. Yes, I share my heart, soul, mind, bound together with all love, actually in spirit with and in the Holy Spirit, Jesus, our Father, and all other of the family of God.

          I quote the bible to you, darel and others, who do not know the Teacher living with and in them, because, first, I am trained both by churches and now solely the Spirit of truth, and second, you all claim to believe the bible. When I stated fact, without quoting, that you found was supported by the bible, you accused me of mangling the bible. If you cannot understand the spirit of the bible, and cannot comprehend the letter of the bible, then where are you finding any truth in the bible?

          You judge by the flesh because you cannot accept the spirit. God is spirit!

          1. Asking you to quote scripture accurately is not judging.

            Again:
            When you can explain to us why you quote the word of God as written in the bible while rejecting the bible as the word of God I will listen? This is your chance to prove to me that you are not possessed. Do not deflect; answer the question. The only question I will ask you.

            1. Bob, you have no reading comprehension. What is so hard to understand that the only authority you people choose to accept is the bible that you all say that you trust is the bonafide “word of God”? I quote it because it does not say it is the word of God to begin with and serves only by testimony to tell you how you can become a child of God as the only conclusion. This leaves us with no authority that you would accept to help one another to find the truth about God?

              You do not accept that the Spirit of truth is real and available to you. You do not accept that to be baptized by Jesus, with the Holy Spirit, is exactly the same as being filled with the living Spirit of truth forever. In fact, you demonstrate a fear of being possessed by the Advocate. You are no closer to relating to God as is written in the bible because you don’t read the bible.

              Other than your logic, which has been biased by those of flesh around you, no less so than any orthodox Muslim, what does it take to introduce you to a very real God of love?

              Why can’t you trust God so much that you know that he/they can keep you from evil, if you only ask, and can adore you as a child while guiding you into all truth, never leaving you as an orphan, ever? These are promises all written in your bible that free you from your fears instilled by the corporate church of the flesh. Eternal life can only exist in the Spirit and in truth, not possible in the flesh.

              This is not deflecting!!! This is the truth that I can bear to trust, enough to share with whoever would listen, totally free from the manipulation and intimidation of you and your orthodox religion that does not know God personally.

              1. So you quote the bible…”because it does not say it is the word of God to begin with…” but because…(it) “serves only by testimony to tell you how you can become a child of God…” That is totally contradictory.

                We know “a very real God of love” from the bible. Hebrews 12:6-11 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.”

                ” These are promises all written in your bible…” Yes they are but you cannot pick and choose the words you like and the words you don’t.

                Third request:
                When you can explain to us why you quote the word of God as written in the bible while rejecting the bible as the word of God I will listen? This is your chance to prove to me that you are not possessed. Do not deflect; answer the question. The only question I will ask you.

                1. I AM POSSESSED as a child of God, really. Why do you insist that you have to cure me? That is no motivation for me to teach you everything Jesus commands of me, quite the opposite.

                  The bible is testimony, testimony, testimony, … , old and new, from those who have found their relationship with God in the last 6,000 years. God didn’t change but the testimony did as mankind has been growing to bear more. Jesus disagreed with much of the Law and the Prophets, while summing up what each chronicled relationship was and hung upon.

                  The bible is not a rule book but is a guide book to each our own relationship with God, apropos to each at their time on earth.

                  Over the years with you, Bob, I have shared testimony of my child relationship has grown with, in and of God. That testimony is no less “God breathed” with the Spirit of truth living with and in me for that entire period. I know the Word of God in me and it is not hard copy past testimony, it is one in one divine family relationship. It is relationship not of the flesh, but is purely of the Spirit and truth.

                  I quote the bible because it is sound testimony as to what Jesus said 2,000 years ago, agreeing with what he says today to all of his sibling disciples. I do not quote any “Christian” church doctrine, dogma or theology, as you and darel do, because no physical church is led by Jesus, the high priest of his church of worship which is spirit. You guys are so obsessed with relational rules of the flesh, imposed by mankind, that you can’t understand the relational rules of the Spirit, taught to all children of God by God directly.

                  Why would I not share (quote) testimony from the bible that I can attest to as true, evolving over 6,000 years, compared with my testimony today that is dynamically growing in truth as much as I can bear to assimilate?

                  Can you understand that chronicled testimony of relationship is valuable to quote? Jesus teaches me today, also, in reaffirmation of what he taught and commanded 2,000 years ago. Jesus’ commands, testified to in the bible, were all commands of relationship in spirit. Jesus did not, according to scripture, perform, nor ask (command) any to perform physical rituals, sacraments, or rote declaration of allegiance or creeds. Jesus selected disciples (pupils) and apostles (ministers of the Word filled with the Holy Spirit). Jesus has never appointed judges and executioners on earth, which is what it appears you and darel think you are, as soldiers for “Christ”(?).

                  There is nothing contradictory with my sharing bible testimony with my own, both relating to the same God.

                  Can you understand that?

                  1. Herm Bob Shiloh • 2 days ago

                    Jesus disagreed with much of the Law and the Prophets, while summing up what each chronicled relationship was and hung upon
                    ============================
                    What a liar from hell you are SINLESS Herm!

                    Name one law and one prophet of God that Jesus disagreed with. That’s just evil, SINLESS, Herm.

                    1. The Lord says!!! Exodus 21:23-25 (NIV2011)

                      But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

                      Leviticus 24:17-22 (NIV2011)

                      “ ‘Anyone who takes the life of a human being is to be put to death. Anyone who takes the life of someone’s animal must make restitution—life for life. Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury. Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a human being is to be put to death. You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.’ ”

                      Deuteronomy 19:21 (NIV2011)

                      Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

                      Jesus says!!! Matthew 5:38-42 (NIV2011)

                      You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

                      Who is your teacher?

                    2. I can hardly wait to correct you but first I need an answer to two questions.

                      1. Is Jesus Christ God? I say yes, you say yes or no, just yes or no.
                      .
                      2. Did God author and give the law to Israel? I say yes, you say yes or nor, just yes or no.

                    3. So, if I understand you, the Lord God commands to show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 500 years earlier than when the Lord God commands to not resist an evil person and if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. Is that right?

                      Just how does that fit with the sum of the Law and the Prophets? Please, explain that to me. You can try to answer with your arrogant ‘yes’ and ‘no’ answers if that is what you would want me to do with you. Maybe, I can learn from you how to answer with all truth in only yes and no responses.

                      You are not my teacher, though I am willing learn, pro and con, from your example of testimony. I don’t intend to be your teacher, though I am commissioned to teach all nations how to be filled with the Spirit themselves, with he becoming their sole guide into all truth forever.

                      In my sharing with you, I am doing no more than testifying to my very real relationship with the Spirit of truth, supported by how he is portrayed in the bible you refuse to read.

                    4. So, if I understand you, the Lord God commands to show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 500 years earlier than when the Lord God commands to not resist an evil person and if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. Is that right?

                      Just how does that fit with the sum of the Law and the Prophets? Please, explain that to me. You can try to answer with your arrogant ‘yes’ and ‘no’ answers if that is what you would want me to do with you. Maybe, I can learn from you how to answer with all truth in only yes and no responses.

                      You are not my teacher, though I am willing learn, pro and con, from your example of testimony. I don’t intend to be your teacher, though I am commissioned to teach all nations how to be filled with the Spirit themselves, with he becoming their sole guide into all truth forever.

                      In my sharing with you, I am doing no more than testifying to my very real relationship with the Spirit of truth, supported by how he is portrayed in the bible you refuse to read.

                    5. hahahaha

                      I marvel at how fearful you are of me. You would not answer two simple questions that any true Christian could easily answer. I even answered my own questions to help you out. You are a coward SINLESS Herm.

                      SINLESS Herm, only an arrogant, prideful, full of himself, sanctimonious fraud could write what you wrote:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    6. By what evidence do you accuse me of fearing you, arrogance, pride, full of myself, sanctimonious, a coward and a fraud, and by what authority do you ridicule me as you would not have me ridicule you?

                      Is it because you find yourself incapable of loving the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength, with all your mind, and like that, love your neighbor as yourself? It seems to me, from my perspective, that you love yourself so little, ashamedly considering yourself an incurable sinner, that it wouldn’t be that much love that would be your all, for God or Man, neighbor friend or foe.

                      If you cannot get your heart, soul, strength, mind, which is spirit in the image of God, out of this physical world, you cannot possibly ever have any awareness or influence (life) in heaven which is solely spirit. If the you gifted the image of God is never aware and influential then you will have nothing to lose, but fear of the unknown itself when you die.

                    7. “By what evidence do you accuse me of fearing you,”

                      You wouldn’t answer yes or no to my questions. You can be so simple, SINLESS Herm.

                      1. Is Jesus Christ God?
                      .
                      2. Did God author and give the law to Israel?

                      You claim to be a learned man and yet you won’t or can’t answer my two simple questions.

                      Any man who made the following claim is capable of answering those questions, SINLESS Herm:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    8. Lol why are you so fearful of me, coward?

                      You cannot answer simple questions from the mighty scary Bones.

                      Shows how weak and pathetic your god is.

                      It’s like Trump really.

                    9. He did not answer your simple question. He is commanded to by the bible he quotes.

                      Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

                    10. He knows that he is in trouble when and if he does answer those two simple questions that any true Christian could answer.

                    11. That’s bullshit! I know the Holy Spirit living with and in me right now. I am not in trouble because I do see him, I do know him and I have accepted to be filled with him forever. It is you and Bob who accuse me of lying and of blasphemy as the only begotten Son of God was accused by his religious authorities who, also, did not know God.

                      I do not give authority, that is my living Christ’s alone, to a book that has no more value to than the testimony of mankind. You are no different in your faith of a God unknown than do those, like you, who do not know Jesus in them, and they in him, and swear allegiance to the Koran, which includes the scripture Jesus referred to as the Law and the Prophets, and, at least, they have faith that Jesus was a prophet.

                      You have no Jesus no more than a devout Jew today who still awaits the Messiah to come, based on the scripture known to them as the Law and the Prophets.

                      Is Jesus Christ of God, as the only begotten of Man Son of God, absolutely. How do I know? Because I trust the word of our Father who does protect me from the evil of your father, and his children, and who does provide my nurture in the Spirit that will be eternal, never leaving me an orphaned child of his.

                      The only law that I trust that was given by God to the Levite priests to protect, kept in in the Holy of Holies, was written in stone and protected inside an arc. That arc was taken away from the Israelites, long before the birth of the Son of Man. You can read clearly, according to the Son of Man, with and in whom was the Spirit of truth, the one appearing as a dove, that our Father God is the first, in everything, to do to others as he would have others do to him, as he loves himself. that is not the God portrayed commanding, “Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth”.

                      My Father in heaven is perfect and even loves his enemy, so much so, that he would offer his first Son, as is written he asked of Abraham, that his even enemies might be saved.

                    12. Please answer the question:
                      1. Is Jesus Christ God? I say yes, you say yes or no, just yes or no.
                      You said ,”…Jesus Christ (is) of God. Not the same thing.

                    13. All of God are the body of God!

                      All of Man are the body of Man!

                      Jesus, even after the Holy Spirit came upon him and remained, and sent Jesus out into the wilderness, still referred to himself as the Son of Man and the Son of God. All his disciples, who did the will of his Father, were then and there children of God, brothers, sisters, and mother. All disciples of Jesus today are his siblings with the same Father as he. All, including the Holy Spirit are of God, bound together in one body of God by all love.

                      Anyone of the Spirit, not of this world, can understand this. By your criticism founded on ignorance of the Spirit it is obvious that you are of this world.

                    14. Oh goodie a quiz on orthodoxy also known as an inquisition.

                      You see Bob’s Jesus saying to the thief on the cross after being asked to remember him when he comes into his kingdom, only if you believe he is God.

                      I’m going no.

                      So sue me.

                      It’s so funny watching idiots who worship Trump as messiah, appointing themselves as judges of who is a Christian, when they don’t know their arses from their elbows.

                      Jesus said you will be below prostitutes and tax collectors in the kingdom of God.

                      Seems he wasn’t too interested in your ‘doctrine’.

                      It’s funny how Bob and Darel spend all their time hating others.

                      I suppose they get that from Trump.

                    15. I didn’t read all of his comment, I seldom do. He tries to cover his lies by lengthy ramblings. He is a con man just like all false teachers, although I can’t see anyone actually giving him any money.

                      I think you exposed another heresy of his when you noted his sly wording. Mormons essentially say the same thing. Let’s stay on him to be specific. He has claimed that he is sinless, so he may think he is a god.

                    16. darel, you have never read all the Bible that you claim as your only available words of God. If you had you would know that you are not the first ignorant of God to expose, in their own mind, a son of God of heresy.

                    17. You are not a “son of God” at least in the sense of being a Christian. But you are a heretic.

                      You deny that the Bible is the word of God.

                      You deny that you are a sinner.

                      You deny that Homosexuality is sin

                      You refuse to confess that Jesus is God. A professing Christian would never refuse to acknowledge that Jesus is God.

                      No true Christian local assembly, a Christian church, would ever have you as a member.

                      There is no doubt in my mind that you reject other Christian doctrines taught in the Bible, the word of God. Hopefully you will reveal those as you strike out at me.

                    18. The Holy Spirit NEVER, I repeat NEVER, filled you with this lie, SINLESS Herm

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                      That lie came from the pits of hell and you own it, SINLESS Herm.

                    19. darel, please, explain to me, with any other evidence than your wailing in the wind, why I cannot love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. And why it is a lie that for the love of this entire world, as shared in my heart and mind in the Spirit by my Father, I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. On what grounds makes these lies to you?

                    20. You don’t “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind,” SINLESS Herm, because you have sinned against God in the past, in the present, and you will continuously sin against God in the future.

                      You are a sinner, SINLESS Herm. You are haughty, arrogant, full of yourself, and you are a sanctimonious fraud.

                      to be continued…

                    21. It seems that you are trying to deceive, again, SINLESS Herm.
                      Previously you wrote, “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind…….”

                      Now it’s, “darel, please, explain to me, with any other evidence than your wailing in the wind, why I cannot love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind….”

                      You went from, ” I do love… to asking “why I cannot love…”

                      to be continued……

                    22. You are the first and only person, I have ever encountered or heard of, that has told this whopper of a lie:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                      I dare say that your mentor Keith Giles has not claimed such, nor anyone else who you learn from. Can you prove me wrong on that? If so quote him or her and provide the link.

                      to be continued…

                    23. Herm darel • 2 months ago
                      Wow, you deny who the Word is:

                      John 1:1 (NIV2011)

                      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
                      You deny him as your one Instructor:

                      ===================================

                      SINLESS Herm, you are a despicable liar!

                      You made ALL of that up. Now, quote me, liar. Provide a quote where I said that the word was not God. Provide a quote where I said that the word was not Jesus.

                      You are a very dishonest man, SINLESS Herm.

                      I guess that I will have to go back and read some of the lying garbage that you have written about me and call you out.

                    24. I have only one Teacher, one Instructor, one Father whom I learn from. If you knew the Way you, too, could learn that all I have shared with you was from and in the Spirit of truth. Just because you have been sheltered from the Spirit of truth inside the fog of your physical church sanctuary, does in no way discredit he who you cannot see, to know, to accept. John 9:35-41

                    25. 1 John 3:7-10 (NIV2011)

                      Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

                      John 3:5-8 (NIV2011)

                      Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

                      Answer this for yourself, I need not know what I already know from your spirit. Are you born a child of God that you may enter the kingdom?

                    26. “Answer this for yourself, I need not know what I already know from your spirit. Are you born a child of God that you may enter the kingdom?”

                      Seriously, SINLESS Herm, you need to learn how to be coherent.

                    27. … your guilt remains, while I have none for I have been set free!

                      Romans 6:22-23 (NIV2011)
                      But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

                    28. You wrote the BIG lie SINLESS Herm:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    29. You really don’t believe God is real! Do you fear the wrath of some mystic volcano God taught to you by your community seeking better crops next year?

                      I testify that God is real, eternal and need not be feared by little, temporary physical people of Man, really. Good luck with your fight against the real Spirit in your midst!

                    30. Your great sinful lie is here for all to see:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                      You can’t hide from that lie SINLESS Herm.

                    31. You show no evidence! You have no foundation to stand on! You trust only in repetition to make your ignorance fact! You say you value and worship the bible as God, while waiting for God to return! You don’t read the bible to comprehend for yourself. You don’t listen to those who do and who do find the Spirit of truth it testifies to!

                      Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV2011)

                      There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

                      By the spirit you display here you exhibit at least six of the seven. I can’t see your eyes.

                      Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

                      “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

                      I am a disciple of Christ Jesus!

                    32. You show no evidence! You have no foundation to stand on! You trust only in repetition to make your ignorance fact! You say you value and worship the bible as God, while waiting for God to return! You don’t read the bible to comprehend for yourself. You don’t listen to those who do and who do find the Spirit of truth it testifies to!

                      Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV2011)

                      There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

                      By the spirit you display here you exhibit at least six of the seven. I can’t see your eyes.

                      Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

                      “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

                      I am a disciple of Christ Jesus!

                    33. You show no evidence! You have no foundation to stand on! You trust only in repetition to make your ignorance fact! You say you value and worship the bible as God, while waiting for God to return! You don’t read the bible to comprehend for yourself. You don’t listen to those who do and who do find the Spirit of truth it testifies to!

                      Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV2011)

                      There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

                      By the spirit you display here you exhibit at least six of the seven. I can’t see your eyes.

                      Luke 14:26-27 (NIV2011)

                      “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

                      I am a disciple of Christ Jesus!

                    34. You have nothing but false and hateful accusations.

                      I have your words SINLESS Herm:

                      Herm darel • 2 months ago
                      Wow, you deny who the Word is:

                      John 1:1 (NIV2011)

                      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
                      You deny him as your one Instructor:

                      ===================================

                      SINLESS Herm, you are a despicable liar!

                      You made ALL of that up. Now, quote me, liar. Provide a quote where I said that the word was not God. Provide a quote where I said that the word was not Jesus.

                      You are a very dishonest man, SINLESS Herm.

                    35. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
                      You deny him as your one Instructor:”

                      My Teacher, Instructor and Father have been accepted in me, without pause, without end, and I in them. I don’t deny them, you do.

                      If you really want to know the Word you have to learn to understand that the Word in the beginning, as written, is the Spirit of truth, who sent the Christ into the wilderness to prepare for his ministry. He is the one who only teaches the will of my Father and the Instructions of he with all authority, now, right now, in heaven and on earth.

                      It is not fair that I laud the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as though I know them to one as blind as you.

                      Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

                      I was blind as an authority of the Christian religion and only saw the Spirit of truth, to know him and to accept him when I had lost everything. Today my judgment is founded on the Rock Jesus’ church is built on, not the sand yours is collapsing on.

                      What if I am not “dishonest” and only seem so to you because you have been deluded by mortal teachers of the law?

                      I repeat, theology is the study of God that your corporate church is founded on. Children of God know all of God in them and they in all of God, as written in the Bible. Children of God don’t waste their eternal time studying who they are. Children of God learn, work, play, adventure, and savor each and every moment of time together bound in all love.

                      I have hope for you for once I might have been so arrogant as to try to dissuade a child of God into accepting my theology. I, although, have always sought out truth with evidence in support of my argument. You reject and don’t seem to care for truth that may be beyond your ignorance. That’s arrogance both Man and God despise. You don’t seek to love me, as I seek to love you. You seek only to conquer me.

                      With that, you, once again, are blocked. Bye!

                    36. You have nothing but false and hateful accusations.

                      I have your words SINLESS Herm:

                      Herm darel • 2 months ago
                      Wow, you deny who the Word is:

                      John 1:1 (NIV2011)

                      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
                      You deny him as your one Instructor:

                      ===================================

                      You made ALL of that up. Now, quote me, liar. Provide a quote where I said that the word was not God. Provide a quote where I said that the word was not Jesus.

                    37. You reject the word of God. You go so far as to deny that you are a sinner. Who beside you has ever said:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    38. If you do not know the Spirit with and in you, you cannot possibly love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, with all your mind, and like that, do to all others as you would have all others do to you, as you love yourself. Anyone can pledge allegiance to a god unknown because they have been conditioned to fear that god, as you apparently do. I accepted to be of God because I desire to be bound in all love to all hearts, souls, strengths, minds of God, not out of fear of the Lord my God’s retribution.

                      Do you know that the Jewish nation, during Jesus’ ministry on earth, firmly believed that all the heavens rotated around them and their flat earth? They were certain that the earth, and all life on it were created in six earth days. Is that what you believe?

                    39. No to both.

                      Here’s my questions
                      1. When did you sell your soul to Trump?
                      2. Why do you love Trump’s lies?
                      3. What does the Bible say about Liars?

                    40. Lol food rules for starters, not killing adulterous women, not being defiled by bleeding women ….

                      The Law was evil.

                      Like you.

                2. I like when Jesus says

                  “because you say you can see, your sin remains.”

                  Wraps up conservatives like you nicely. You show no god of love at all.

                  You display a religion built on rules and condemnation.

                  Why do you hate the Bible Bob?? …. Apart from the bits about hating and judging others.

                  Like acting justly, loving mercy, walking humbly with your god…

                  Why did you exchange that for Trump’s lies?

              2. The Bible, the Scriptures, the word of God, is the truth, the standard of truth. SINLESS Herm, you deny this, and yet you claim to have the truth in you. You don’t know God from a hole in the ground, SINLESS Herm.

                You even go so far as claim you are SINLESS:

                “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                  1. Because he only knows the wisdom of a physical Man with no understanding of the Spirit of truth guiding him into all truth forever. He expects to be saved physically because Jesus and Lazarus were raised from the dead. What I can’t understand, is when offered a childhood of God, who is spirit not physical, he and Bob still expect Jesus and his Father to establish their throwns physically on earth as physical beings. It sure seems to me that eternal potential for life in spirit is infinitely greater than life bounded by physical constraints. But then that is why I am no longer ruled by their world’s limitations of shared awareness, influence, adventure and savor.

            2. You mean like you do, Bob.

              Jesus said the measure you judge others is the measure you will be judged.

              Thats coming to pass for Conservative hypocritical pharisees like yourself.

          2. Any police detective will tell you that if four different witnesses give you the EXACT same story, something is fishy. Investigators are far more likely to give credence to four similar, complimentary but not identical accounts than they are to listen to four identical accounts.

            The accounts in the Gospel COMPLIMENT each other. They do not contradict. They most certainly are meant to be taken as factual accounts.

            If Jesus is not God Made Flesh, then why listen to His teachings at all?

            1. ArchKnight, Bob is insisting that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, directed by God, not the words related by imperfect perspective witnesses of Man. The fact is that the witnessed quotes of Jesus tell us clearly that there is only one Teacher of God who can guide each one of us (born of the Spirit) into all truth forever. If four witnesses are telling the same story differently then none of those four are the one Spirit of the one truth directly from the one God. If, as it is written, the Spirit of truth is with and in you, never leaving you orphaned, why would you trust four different perspectives of 2,000 year old witnesses, without any original autographed copies, instead of he, the one appearing like a dove, who fills those of Man, who see him, got to know him, and then accepted him to be able to boldly speak the word of God long before there was a Bible —> Acts 4:31.

              It is sad that Man didn’t listen to God in their presence, in their flesh, even his chosen tribe responsible to the hand written Decalogue of stone. Who would dare, if they knew, crucify the Son of God, within whom the one appearing as a dove remained (the one who led the Messiah, first into the wilderness), in the name of God? They called themselves God’s own but didn’t recognize God, in God’s spirit, in their midst, for they only saw an expendable, illiterate carpenter.

              So what do you see? How do you know God?

              1. Ah, I understand your position now. The thread got pretty far from the original blog post, didn’t it?

                Well, I can’t say I completely agree with you, but you DO seem to be one of the more civil voices. Perhaps, on some other thread more appropriate to the topic, we can one day discuss it in more detail.

                1. Thank you. Anytime you wish I am glad to have the opportunity to share with you.

                  You did help me, one year later, to realize just how harsh I was on Bob. I will try to be less emotional next time he won’t listen to the fact that God is real, outside the Bible. The God of Jesus is real and we each can know them personally with and in us, as it was written 2,000 years ago.

                  Love you!

            2. More tosh.

              The Gospels do not compliment each other.

              In fact Matthew and Luke changed and added to Mark.

              Any police detective will tell you that if someone gives you the EXACT same story word for word, something is fishy.

              “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.” (Mk. 13:14)

              “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.” (Matt. 24:15-16)

            3. Granted, memories may differ. But Matthew tells of a visit to Joseph’s house in Bethlehem by three eastern Magi, followed by a flight to Egypt. Luke tells of a trip from Nazareth to Bethlehem because of a census, a birth in a stable, no visits by Magi or anyone else, a ritual visit to the temple, and then a trip back to Nazareth. Outside of the birth in Bethlehem, there are no points of contact between these two stories.

              1. There are no points of contact because they cover different time periods. The ritual visit to the temple for Jesus’ dedication (i.e. bris) was 8 days after his birth, as per the Torah. The visit by the magi was much later.

                Remember, Matthew wrote based on his own knowledge as one of the 12. Luke states at the opening of his Gospel that he made a careful investigation. He would have talked to many sources, not relied on his own knowledge. This is why he has more details about Mary’s side of the story. He actually TALKED to her.

                The gospels record different details. This makes them complementary, not contradictory.

                1. Yes, tradition has it that Luke spoke with Mary. Odd, then, that she forgot trivial details about living in Bethlehem at the time of Jesus’s birth, the visit from the Magi, and fleeing to Egypt.

                  1. You realize the Magi’s visit was YEARS later, right? It wasn’t while they were still in the stable gathered around the manger. Luke didn’t include that because he didn’t think his Greek readers would care about it.

                    Everyone assumes the Magi wound up in Bethlehem because Matthew 2:8 says Herod sent them to Bethlehem, but it doesn’t say that’s where the Magi found Jesus.

                    Matt 2:9 says that as soon as they left Herod, they saw the star again, and it led them to where Jesus actually was. It makes no claim that his was still in Bethlehem. In fact, I take it to mean that had they followed Herod’s directions, they never would have found the kid.

                    Luke was more concerned with all the signs of divinity which occurred in the Temple when Jesus was dedicated, and when he later returned. Matthew was concerned with the symbolic nature of the gifts the Magi delivered.

                    So, there’s no contradiction here. Just one filling in pieces that the other left out.

                    1. I agree that the Christmas crèches are unbiblical because the Magi never went to a stable. However, your addition of years intervening between the birth of Jesus and the arrival of the Magi is just your attempt to twist the texts so that you can say that there is no disagreement. You also don’t even try to explain how Mary, in talking to the author of Luke, just forgot about the slaughter of the innocents, the flight into Egypt, and other minor matters.

                    2. Mary forgot nothing. Luke simply didn’t include that in his Greek-centered narrative. Matthews Jewish readers would have been familiar already with Herod’s renown cruelty. They would have known already of the massacre. This would have related the birth of Christ to an event about which they already knew.

                      Luke’s Greek readers would have had no chronological context for Herod’s actions. Luke simply decided it wasn’t useful for his narrative designed to appeal to the Hellenistic reader.

                    3. Speaking of which, notice how the gospel writers tried to appease the Romans by making Pilate look like a sympathetic figure who didn’t want to crucify Jesus, compared to the evil Jews. When in reality, Pilate was a corrupt, cruel tyrant who had no qualms crucifying thousands of Jews. The truth is Jesus was crucified and probably didn’t even face Pilate. Neither is Jesus’s appearance before the sanhedrin believable to Jews.

                      It’s no wonder Jews rejected the gospels and Christianity failed to reach Jews.

                      And it’s no wonder the early church made Pilate into a saint.

                    4. I don’t really see it as trying to paint Pilate sympathetically at all, so much as it is trying to show that even Pilate couldn’t find a legitimate reason to kill this guy.

                    5. You’re equating, “Luke didn’t include it in his account,” with, “Mary forgot it,” or with, “It didn’t happen.” But that really isn’t justified. It’s mistaking, “Absence of Evidence,” for, “Evidence of Absence”. Just because one author records something the other does not is not a reason to assume some sort of contradiction.

                      Just because Luke leaves out a detail doesn’t mean Luke is saying, “It didn’t happen,” or, “Mary didn’t say anything about that.” He just chose not to include it in his account. His account is already the longest, and is geared to appeal to the Hellenistic mindset. That’s why he records more of Jesus’ teachings than the other writers do. (Oh, those ancient Greeks and their love of philosophy.)

                      I don’t try to explain Mary forgetting those details you mention because I don’t think for a minute that she did. I’m sure she told Luke. I just think Luke didn’t bother to include it in his final draft.

                      Matthew recorded it because it spoke to the Jewish heart. Matthew even quoted Jeremiah 31:15 because the Jewish people would have understood the fulfillment of prophecy. They knew the importance of Bethlehem to the Messianic prophecies, and the importance of the Davidic line. They knew this is where Rachel was buried, and thus the poignancy of the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:15.

                      But the Greeks? They didn’t grow up hearing these prophecies read in the synagogue. They had no idea what made Bethlehem any different than any other hole-in-the ground village. So some sadistic Roman governor slaughters a few dozen kids in a tiny village in some backwater province. SO WHAT!?!?!?

                      Honestly, it would have been weirder if Luke HAD recorded it. It just wouldn’t have interested his intended audience.

                      And then there’s Mark! And you know those Ancient Romans! All they cared about was POWER, so Mark writing what he learned from Peter at the request of the people of Rome, skipped ALL that “Baby Jesus” stuff and jumped right into “SON OF GOD! VOICE FROM HEAVEN!”. A Gospel for Romans if ever there was one!!

                    6. Bahahahaha

                      Mark just happened to leave out the Sermon on the Mount, infancy narratives (Virgin births were a Roman thing btw), the Transfiguration, Lord’s Prayer and that pesky little Resurrection story at the end because Romans…..bahahahahahaha..Who believes this nonsense?

                      Mark was written first after the destruction of the temple – (the parable of the fig tree, let the reader understand – wishful thinking that)…

                      Matthew copied 97% of Mark and added his own agenda which was that Christianity had replaced Judaism hence Matthew needing to use prophecy to legitimise Christianity, even resorting to making up stuff. You know cos ‘His blood be upon our heads and on our children’s’ didn’t actually happen. Most of those supposed ‘messianic prophecies’ weren’t messianic at all and Matthew cobbled any Old Testament verse and made up stories to go with eg the family travelling to Egypt.

                      Luke copied much of Mark as well. 88%. And his gospel was more of an apologetic on the gentile mission of Paul. Problem with Luke is…he didn’t know what Matthew was writing. And he wasn’t interested in history as such.

                      The Gospel of John was just a plain anti-Judaic polemic aimed squarely at ‘the
                      Darkness’ – Judaism.

        2. Lol.. Bob who’s possessed by the Trump cult accuses someone else of being possessed.

          That’ll do me.

          Physician, heal thyself!

    2. Why do you hate Herm but love Trump?

      Is that why you have to seek out others to attack?

      Does it make you feel better being like Trump?

      The ‘sanctimonious fraud’ is the one pointing their fingers at others.

      Thats why we hate your religion. Just like Jesus did.

      And you people can’t help yourselves.

  11. Watch “Plugs” and Bernie tonight and see if “Plugs” can convince anyone he should be in charge. Someone who is obviously having metal health challenges cannot be allowed to be our President.

      1. The Democrats tried Article 25 against Trump but found no audience.
        I hoped you watched General Barr on Ingram this week? Comey and Brennan did with their tongues hanging out of their mouths.

        1. The Democrats cannot try Article 25. Only Pence can. Trump obviously has mental health challenges, https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1242836333871202305
          but the Trump supporters and the GOP apparently don’t care, except when they find an opportunity to go after a Dem for it. Another double standard. I never watch Ingraham. She is nothing but shrill Trump propaganda who makes her money pandering to Trump supporters’ political priors.

          Okay, I took a look at it. In typical form, she begins badly with a stupid framing about how “we have no freedom of worship, blah blah blah.” Barr did not take the bait. Good on him. But she can’t give up the stupid frame. Fact is, people shouldn’t need the government to tell them to
          take prudent measures. But we also know that people will not choose prudence on their own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm6lnVCVFZM

          Barr ended up repeating himself over and over again because she was like a dog with a bone.

          “Every time?” Good grief, there is no “every time.” This is an extraordinary event, the like of which hasn’t happened in the US for a hundred years. That event caused 575,000 deaths in the US

          https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

          control efforts worldwide were limited to
          non-pharmaceutical interventions such as isolation, quarantine, good personal hygiene, use of disinfectants,and limitations of public
          gatherings, which were applied unevenly.

          Maybe if the interventions had been applied widely, evenly, and strictly enforced, far fewer people would have died.

          After a segment on China, she misrepresents the objection to Trump’s comments regarding the

          malaria drug as partisan attacks on Trump. Barr took this bait and made statements that implicitly contradict Dr. Fauci and other experts. Keep in mind that Trump also said it was amazing that the virus defeats antibiotics. Of course it does, because antibiotics do not fight viruses. DO NOT take your medical advice from Trump.

          Then she brings up social unrest, risk of looting, etc even though law enforcement reports decrease in property crimes, but an increase in domestic violence. Barr reasonably says we need to learn to adapt by
          changing our protocols.

          Why would Comey or Brannan have any particular reaction to this relatively bland (for Laura) interview?

  12. And for those of you who view the unborn as not children of God:
    TheHill.com
    Trump’s DOJ makes a case for civil rights for the unborn
    BY J. CHRISTIAN ADAMS, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 03/11/20 08:30 AM

    The Department of Justice (DOJ) Civil Rights Division will argue in a federal appeals court today that the unborn have civil rights worthy of protection. Civil Rights Division Assistant Attorney General Eric Dreiband will be in the courtroom for Wednesday’s argument before the entire Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, demonstrating the importance of the issue to the court as well as to pro-life voters.

    1. Bob, according to your only “word of God” there is only one Way to become a child of God, no matter what Trump’s DOJ might argue, it is God’s choice to make.

        1. In everything, do to others as you would have others do to you.

          We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

          Yes, even women have the unalienable Right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Women are not slaves to their community ethics, morals or religious demands to propagate their species. If the species desires to survive it has to support the desires of its women first before it can expect a healthy and constructive spawn. Every sperm and egg are life. Every thought of reproduction is life. Community support, not legislation or demand, will produce more than enough to sustain the community.

            1. I showed where God called for Joshua to abort babies, directly from as it is written in your Bible. Where do you get this, “Abortion is biblical murder”? Either the fifth or sixth commandment, depending which Bible version, is offset with:

              Exodus 22:18-24 (NIV2011)
              “Do not allow a sorceress to live.
              “Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death.
              “Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.
              “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
              “Do not take advantage of the widow or the fatherless.
              If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry.
              My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.

              … many more admonitions to kill/murder in the name of God.

              Does that sound like the God of the New Testament, like Jesus, the Christ?

              So, find in the Bible, any translation, where God penalizes any abortion and/or calls such murder!

              It is the mother’s constitutional right!

              1. Nothing you wrote or have ever written makes God complicit in today’s abortions. Joshua is not a proof that God allows abortion.
                God does/can/has killed people for breaking his commands. See Ananias and Sapphira in Acts. They died for lying.
                There is no difference between the OT and NT. God is the God of both. The Word of God was the God who interacted with man in the OT.
                If Abortion is a Constitutional Right show us which Amendment says that.

                1. Joshua’s army killed everyone, man, women, children, everyone, no exceptions of the town. There were pregnant women.

                  Jesus, the Messiah, in the “you heard it said” (google it) referred to sections of the Old Testament Law that was not the God, the Father, that we knew in Jesus, period. You have been told, according to the Bible, that the entire intent God inspired in the portions of the Old Testament, known as the Law and the Prophets, is summed up, in everything, do to others as you would have others do to you. NO, Bob, the God represented in to Old Testament was not the same as the God according to Jesus’ example in the New Testament.

                  Ananias and Sapphira died because they knew they had lied to the Holy Spirit. God did not kill them. They died of a broken heart and mind of spirit. God lives and teaches all their children by example. God carried his cross first, all children of God today carry theirs.

                  1. Joshua 11:20-23 (NIV)
                    20 For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses.
                    You realize that this Lord was the Word not God the Father don’t you. Oh, that’s right. You don’t because it doesn’t fit your mindset.

                    Ananias and Sapphira did die because they lied. God judged them and killed them on the spot. Nowhere does it indicate they died of a broken heart.

                    1. How do you read into Ananias and Sapphira that God judged them and killed them? All that is written is that they fell down and died.

                      So Bob, stay with me here, it is you who chooses to wage war against me, due to you’re ignorance of the Spirit of truth as my continual Teacher, as did each the region of Goshen do to Joshua. Does this mean “the LORD” has hardened your heart and that justifies my exterminating you without mercy?

                      Does this sound at all like the heavenly Father of God as Jesus spoke of as perfect?

                      Matthew 5:43-48 (NIV2011)

                      “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

                    2. How do you read into it, “They died of a broken heart and mind of spirit? “All that is written is that they fell down and died.”

                      I can’t response to nonsense.

                    3. I can understand why it would seem like nonsense to you. I, also, understand why you may not be able to grasp why the new covenant between Man and God, gave all authority to Jesus, the Son of Man crucified, stripping all authority from the seat of Moses. Could it have been because they abused it? We can determine exactly that by what is written in the Old Testament, that was not the will of God, as Christ was the example for us to know God in the Gospels. Think about it! Ask God!

                      Happy Sabbath!

                    4. You cannot understand the bible without understanding who Jesus is. Jesus was the Word before He was Jesus.
                      John 1:1, 14
                      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
                      The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

                      Without this basis you cannot understand tGod or His Spirit

                      So tell us Herm, who was the Word if not God and then Jesus and now God?

                    5. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This could be a truly happy Sabbath.

                      Bob, I am not putting you off, but realize that God, who is spirit, in some ways is simpler than Man and, in other ways, infinitely more complex for Man to understand. I never, even with a seminary education, understood what is written until I knew the Word.

                      From all you know from the Bible these questions can be answered. Who is the Word if not with and in God today, on earth and in heaven, throughout all space physical and spirit? Can God die? Is God dead on earth, today and/or in heaven, today? When I say dead I mean to you, as unable to share with you, as in person to person. Do you believe, as some do, that God/Jesus/God (as you put it) left 2,000 years ago to come back some day?

                      Help me to assist you in answering your questions, please, by taking the time to answer those questions. Look at it as building step by step answering simple questions to make the whole answer simple to understand. It is worth it, believe me.

                    6. You are so close. You are reading what was written by John 1,950 years ago, and is true as an introduction to his Gospel.

                      This is, also, true and more pertinent for you today, “The Word is God”.

                    7. reference John 14:17:
                      …the Spirit of truth. Bob Shiloh cannot accept him, because he neither sees him nor knows him. But I know him, for he lives with me and is in me.

                      What Bible verse can refute the Spirit of that verse?

                    8. …and the Word was with God and the Word was God…and Herm knew Him not…and refused to believe in Him because he did not know Him…

                    9. That is not at all in the spirit of of John 1:1.

                      John 1:9-13 (NIV2011)

                      The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

                      John 1:32-34 (NIV2011)

                      Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

                      The light is the Spirit of truth, the one appearing as a dove, my Father made available to all who seek to be guided into all truth, today (John 16:13).

                      I did not make up any verse, as you did, I only inserted your name for the world and mine for the disciples who know the Spirit of truth today.

                    10. That is not at all in the spirit of of John 1:1.

                      John 1:9-13 (NIV2011)

                      The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

                      John 1:32-34 (NIV2011)

                      Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

                      The light is the Spirit of truth, the one appearing as a dove, my Father made available to all who seek to be guided into all truth, today (John 16:13).

                      I did not make up any verse, as you did, I only inserted your name for the world and mine for the disciples who know the Spirit of truth today.

                    11. Herm is confusing. He says he does not believe the bible is the word of God yet he quotes the bible non-stop. He believes he communicates directly to God through the Spirit to get “answers” especially when he does not like what the bible says.
                      Since the OT contains many of God’s judgments on people and harsh judgments on nations he cannot accept the OT as writtten.

                    12. You are exactly right!

                      The prevailing heresy among religious liberals today is that God is love, and only love. They reject the Biblical doctrine that God is also a God of wrath. This leads to all kinds of heretical beliefs and teaching. No Biblical hell, no lasting punishment for unbelievers, no second coming of Christ, no Kingdom where Jesus rules on earth and no personal need of salvation from our sins. They almost never use the word sin. All one has to do is constantly say that you love everyone and how you care about the poor. It’s another gospel, a fake gospel. The Bible is not believed and Scripture is made to say what they want it to say. Many also say that we should never go to war or even personally defend ourselves or family.

                    13. John 14:17 has nothing to do with the Word does it?

                      …and the Word was with God and the Word was God…and Herm knew Him not…though He created Herm…

                    14. The Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit, has everything to do with the Word! Please, Bob, just this once read the following that you can verify in your own Bible. The English word baptize means to whelm or fill. John said, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

                      John 16:12-13 (NIV2011)

                      “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

                      Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

                      After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

                      Bob, I am only continuing to fulfill Jesus’ command for his disciples, led by the Holy Spirit of whom I have been filled.

                      Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV2011)

                      Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

                      The Bible is not an authority, it is two testimonies of God.

                      Who is your guide today and what is her/his authority?

                    15. The Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit, has everything to do with the Word! Please, Bob, just this once read the following that you can verify in your own Bible. The English word baptize means to whelm or fill. John said, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

                      John 16:12-13 (NIV2011)

                      “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

                      Acts 4:31 (NIV2011)

                      After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

                      Bob, I am only continuing to fulfill Jesus’ command for his disciples, led by the Holy Spirit of whom I have been filled.

                      Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV2011)

                      Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

                      The Bible is not an authority, it is two testimonies of God.

                      Who is your guide today and what is her/his authority?

                    16. You said, “You are so close. You are reading what was written by John 1,950 years ago, and is true as an introduction to his Gospel.”
                      =====================
                      It’s still true today. Why can’t you believe the Scriptures, the word of God.

                    17. Because Herm has decided that the God of the OT who judged people and nations, as He does today, wold never hurt anyone because He is a God of love. But this is hardly original – just make believe.

                    18. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
                      2 Corinthians 3:7-18 (NIV2011)

                    19. Matthew 5:17-20
                      (17) “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. (18) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (19) Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (20) For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

                    20. Matthew 7:12 (NIV2011)

                      So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

                      Matthew 22:37-40 (NIV2011)

                      Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

                      2 Corinthians 3:13 (NIV2011)

                      We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.

                      Matthew 5:17-18 (NIV2011)

                      “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

                      John 19:30 (NIV2011)

                      When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

                      The temple was torn down, the veil was rent (the curtain was torn) top to bottom, and the scripture was fulfilled. For the Son of Man/the Son of God, the heaven and the earth passed away, no awareness or influence, as he was dead. The third day the temple (John 2:19) was raised again.

                      John 19:36 (NIV2011)

                      These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”

                      John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

                      Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

                      2 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NIV2011)

                      But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

                      Bob, I am selling nothing for my profit. I have no reason, at all, to pump my ego up by winning some fruitless debate or to fill the pews and coffers of my church. I don’t have any need to please my blood family, my pastor or my church family. If you are truly serious about following truth in God and the heavenly Father’s will, and you want freedom from your confusion, turn away from your church and turn toward the Lord, today. If there is any reason for you to feel remorse for your blind allegiance the truth will set you free from that doubt. There is nothing to fear, God truly is love of which none of Man can possibly comprehend, only grow into as each can bear to accept it.

                      Your health is continually in my prayers. Love you!

                    21. Matthew 7:12 (NIV2011)

                      So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

                      Matthew 22:37-40 (NIV2011)

                      Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

                      2 Corinthians 3:13 (NIV2011)

                      We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.

                      Matthew 5:17-18 (NIV2011)

                      “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

                      John 19:30 (NIV2011)

                      When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

                      The temple was torn down, the veil was rent (the curtain was torn) top to bottom, and the scripture was fulfilled. For the Son of Man/the Son of God, the heaven and the earth passed away, no awareness or influence, as he was dead. The third day the temple (John 2:19) was raised again.

                      John 19:36 (NIV2011)

                      These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”

                      John 4:23-24 (NIV2011)

                      Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

                      2 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NIV2011)

                      But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

                      Bob, I am selling nothing for my profit. I have no reason, at all, to pump my ego up by winning some fruitless debate or to fill the pews and coffers of my church. I don’t have any need to please my blood family, my pastor or my church family. If you are truly serious about following truth in God and the heavenly Father’s will, and you want freedom from your confusion, turn away from your church and turn toward the Lord, today. If there is any reason for you to feel remorse for your blind allegiance the truth will set you free from that doubt. There is nothing to fear, God truly is love of which none of Man can possibly comprehend, only grow into as each can bear to accept it.

                      Your health is continually in my prayers. Love you!

                    22. …and the Word was with God and the Word was God…but Herm knew Him not and continued to deny Him…saying “God truly is love” which negates all Scripture he doesn’t like…

                    23. Okay, Bob, you’re happy with the veil.

                      2 Corinthians 2:17 (NIV2011)
                      Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

                      2 Corinthians 3:6 (NIV2011)
                      He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

                      How many children of God will you crucify for blasphemy before you feel remorse?

                    24. As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the end of this age, ” But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read.”

                    25. 2 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NIV2011)
                      But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

                      So you turn to the days of Noah, not to the Lord. When do you realize, if you do, that the Lord is Spirit? The earth will pass away. Jesus isn’t going to set up the kingdom on earth, period!

                    26. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
                      Did Joshua actually destroy, kill, murder, every man, woman and child or not?
                      ===================
                      (4) What would you have done if you were Joshua?

                    27. . Herm Bob Shiloh • 3 hours ago

                      Do you believe, as some do, that God/Jesus/God (as you put it) left 2,000 years ago to come back some day?
                      ====================
                      Christianity does. In fact, Christians believe that Jesus Christ will return and set up His Kingdom on earth.

                      You don’t?

                    28. Herm Bob Shiloh • 4 hours ago
                      I never, even with a seminary education, understood what is written until I knew the Word.
                      ===================
                      No Christian seminary would allow you to attend classes once they found out that you were so anti-Christian. You surely flunked out.

              2. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
                Did Joshua actually destroy, kill, murder, every man, woman and child or not?
                ===================
                (3) What would you have done if you were Joshua?

    2. Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” “How can someone be born when they are old?”

      Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

      Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

      “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

      “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

      John 3:3-15 (NIV2011)

      He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

      John 1:11-13 (NIV2011)

      the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

      John 14:17 (NIV2011)

      But, Bob, you don’t know him, you are of the world who cannot accept him, and neither can any fetus during being born of water see, to know, to accept him to be born of the Spirit. It is written clearly in your Bible. If this is not so, please show me, in the Bible, where it is written differently.

      1. Herm, that is not just twisting the Scriptures, that is an egregious perversion of the Scriptures!

        Have you no shame? Are you an atheist, just trying to provoke Christians?

        1. Okay darel, now show me in your only “word of God”, what has God decided makes a child of God. Just your word does not make it God’s word.

          1. You wrote: “But, Bob, you don’t know him…..and neither can any fetus during being born of water see, to know, to accept him to be born of the Spirit.” Jesus was talking to grown men. The unborn person, the “fetus” as you call him/her are not able to understand their need for Salvation, the forgiveness of their sins, against God. Neither is a newborn. A “fetus” is a developing human being. You would be killers of the unborn use the word “fetus” to deceive others.

            Now, the unborn is a person. There are many Scriptures in the Bible, the word of God, the same Bible that you claim is NOT the word of God, that clearly show that the unborn in the womb has personhood.
            .
            And since you excel at being woefully wrong about Scripture, I will just give you one for now. I say just one for now, because you surely will not stop being wrong.

            “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5).
            You is personhood, Herm. “You” is a personal pronoun. You is a substitute for Jeremiah, a person.

            1. darel, you accuse me of “twisting the Scriptures.

              Jeremiah 1:4-8 (NIV2011)

              The word of the LORD came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

              “Alas, Sovereign LORD,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am too young.”

              But the LORD said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am too young.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you.

              Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the LORD.

              That is “The word of the LORD” (Scripture???) speaking to Jeremiah, not a biblical definition of what God has decided makes a child of God. Jesus, the Christ, made it very clear, in the Gospels, what it takes to be a child of God, his sibling, and his student as the Messiah.

              darel, you don’t know the Spirit of truth, either. You are not a child of God born of the Spirit.

              By the way, your usurped “Christian” spirit is famous — http://disq.us/p/27tw3p8

              1. You wrote “That is “The word of the LORD” (Scripture???) speaking to Jeremiah,..”

                Yes, the Lord God was speaking to Jeremiah. Why is that beyond your understanding? Anybody but you can see that.

                You wrote:”not a biblical definition of what God has decided makes a child of God.” God said “you,” that means personhood. Likewise, I (personhood) began my response to you (personhood) with “You wrote.” “You” is personhood, “you” is a personal pronoun for Herm. You are a person regardless of any gymnastics in your mind that you are not a person.

                You, Herm, a person, do not know God.

                Try again.

                1. darel, the Spirit of truth lives with and in me, without pause, without end, right now. I will speak the word of God in me without your idolized scripture right now. The word of the LORD (the word of God) was not scripture, the Bible, which was not written or canonized at the time of Jeremiah

                  Mankind was an identifiable procreating (born of water) animal species developing long, millions of years, before the “image of God” was graced to them. Mankind will remain for as long as the species exists dependent on propagation to survive for each member will die, cease to exist, cease to be aware and influential.

                  God is spirit. Each of God are with and in each other without end, which will never be possible for physical beings.

                  If Scripture does not agree with, in everything, do to others as you would have others do to you it was not from God’s direct influence, is was not God’s intent. 1,985 years ago there was much more that Jesus’ disciples could not bear that Jesus’ disciples today can easily accept as truth.

                  That’s a minute amount of truth that you will find difficult to comprehend because you don’t have the Spirit of truth living with and in you, without pause, without end.

                  The fact is that to legislate a mother’s responsibility to their instinctive animal procreation is not God’s will in any form. This only became a religious issue when the early Roman Catholic church used it to populate the church. The rhythm method was a known phony method of contraception to facilitate further church populations. If you were to project on saving the fetus, against the will of the mother (and the father, secondly), what’s to keep from legislating that all potential mothers must get pregnant to increase the population of mankind?

                  Your Holy Bible says that God instructed Joshua to destroy all the inhabitants with the cities; young, old, male, female, pregnant.

                  Until you know to see to accept to be born of the Spirit you are no more than a physical animal born of water graced the image of God.

                  … and I did note that you quit, again, offering scripture to support your premise.

                  1. Herm, you wrote: “darel, the Spirit of truth lives with and in me, without pause, without end, right now.”

                    The Holy Spirit does not live within you, no matter how many times you make that claim. You are a sanctimonious fraud. Now you run to some form Darwinism after I exposed the errors in your thinking in your last comment to me.

                    You try to hide your bankrupt spiritual state by citing long passages of Scripture. You may bamboozle your fellow lost souls on this site, but it won’t work with me.

                    When you write your own thoughts, you write incoherent gibberish. Your latest comment is a fine example of bamboozling gibberish.

                    Again, Jeremiah was a person in the womb – The word of the LORD came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

                    The spirit that resides in you, and guides your thinking, can’t understand that.

                    Try again, Herm.

                    1. Matthew 5:38-42 (NIV2011)

                      “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ [Exodus 21:24, Leviticus 24:20, Deuteronomy 19:21] But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

                      Matthew 5:43-48 (NIV2011)

                      “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ [Deuteronomy 23:6, Psalm 139:21,22] But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

                      You apparently don’t read the Bible scripture or you would see how much truth is written and how much you abuse. Jesus, the one Instructor, made it extremely clear that what is written in scripture is according to the perception of the author and not necessarily the intent of God, as shown above.

                      It is perfectly fine with you that the word of the Lord is shared directly with Jeremiah but the word of God couldn’t possibly be shared directly with Herm.

                      Did Joshua follow the will of God at the battle of Jahaz chronicled in a book of the law? Did God, also, form and know each unborn fetus destroyed?

                      Deuteronomy 2:32-34 (NIV2011)

                      When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.

                      You never did answer what God has decided makes a child of God. I can’t blame you your ignorance but you will be held responsible for blaspheming the Spirit of God.

                    2. Your knowledge of the Spirit is limited. You can not and do not blaspheme the Spirit except in one very particular way. And that way is unknown to you and will remain so because you do not have the Spirit of God.

                    3. In Luke 1:41 NASB, the unborn is actually called a baby.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

                      Again, the unborn are persons.

                      Try again, Herm.

                    4. Being called a “baby” does not make one a “child of God”. Why can’t you get this???

                    5. You are getting a teenie bit closer. Try again.

                      (12) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    6. That’s funny because in the Old Testament actions leading to the death of an unborn led to fine.

                    7. darel, the English word “you” was never written. No pronoun of personhood was written.

                      Lexicon

                      “Before
                      בְּטֶ֨רֶם (bə·ṭe·rem)
                      Preposition-b | Adverb
                      Strong’s Hebrew 2962: Non-occurrence, not yet, before

                      I formed
                      אֶצָּרְךָ֤ (’eṣ·ṣā·rə·ḵā)
                      Verb – Qal – Imperfect – first person common singular | second person masculine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 3335: To mould into a, form, as a, potter, to determine

                      you in the womb
                      בַבֶּ֙טֶן֙ (ḇab·be·ṭen)
                      Preposition-b, Article | Noun – feminine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 990: The belly, the womb, the bosom, body of anything

                      I knew you,
                      יְדַעְתִּ֔יךָ (yə·ḏa‘·tî·ḵā)
                      Verb – Qal – Perfect – first person common singular | second person masculine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 3045: To know

                      and before
                      וּבְטֶ֛רֶם (ū·ḇə·ṭe·rem)
                      Conjunctive waw, Preposition-b | Adverb
                      Strong’s Hebrew 2962: Non-occurrence, not yet, before

                      you were born
                      תֵּצֵ֥א (tê·ṣê)
                      Verb – Qal – Imperfect – second person masculine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 3318: To go, bring, out, direct and proxim

                      I set you apart
                      הִקְדַּשְׁתִּ֑יךָ (hiq·daš·tî·ḵā)
                      Verb – Hifil – Perfect – first person common singular | second person masculine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 6942: To be set apart or consecrated

                      [and] appointed
                      נְתַתִּֽיךָ׃ (nə·ṯat·tî·ḵā)
                      Verb – Qal – Perfect – first person common singular | second person masculine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 5414: To give, put, set

                      you a prophet
                      נָבִ֥יא (nā·ḇî)
                      Noun – masculine singular
                      Strong’s Hebrew 5030: A spokesman, speaker, prophet

                      We inserted the pronouns!!!

                    8. Herm, human life begins at conception, in the womb, Luke 1:30-31-
                      The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.

                      God sent the angel Gabriel tell the virgin Mary that she would conceive and have a son. The son was Jesus. Jesus was conceived, and developed in the womb, and then born. Jesus, just like Jeremiah was a person in the womb.

                      This is the order in all of humanity. You Herm, were conceived in the womb, developed in the womb and then you were born. You Herm, were a person in the womb, before you were born.

                      Jesus was a person in the womb, before He was born.
                      You also Herm were a person in the womb before you were born.

                      Everybody living today and who ever lived was a person in the womb before they were born.

                      Try again, Herm.

                    9. Look darel, you are so far off thee beginning of this thread which began with Bob saying,”And for those of you who view the unborn as not children of God:

                      I replied with John explaining, in the Bible:

                      John 3:3-15 (NIV2011)
                      >blockquote>He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

                      … and Jesus’ statement from the Bible:

                      John 3:5-7 (NIV2011)

                      Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

                      … I add Jesus’ statement from the Bible:

                      John 4:24 (NIV2011)

                      God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

                      Jesus, the prophesied Christ, the one Instructor Messiah, was born of the Holy Spirit propagating sexually, of water, with Mary, making him the only begotten Son of God and the Son of Man from God.

                      ALL other children born of water are in no way born of the Spirit and are not children of God able to enter into the kingdom of God, which is spirit on earth and in heaven where Jesus has ALL authority.

                      NO argument made by the Trump DOJ can make any fetus, any child, or any adult of mankind, born of water, a “child of God” clearly according to the Messiah as quoted in the Bible.

                      You are blindly making presumptions only to fit your definition of a child of God, or even a fetus known to God (thousands destroyed in the Law and the Prophets), as protected by God’s command to save by legislation. It isn’t true, and there is far more evidence in the Law and the Prophets that every fetus’ and child’s is the parent’s responsibility, not the community’s.

                      Your loss, because you are not born again. By your fruit you do not see, to know, to accept the Spirit of truth.

                      Children of God are only conceived in the Spirit to live eternally. Children of Man are conceived in the womb of a woman to live terminally.

                    10. Look darel, you are so far off thee beginning of this thread which began with Bob saying,”And for those of you who view the unborn as not children of God:

                      I replied with John explaining, in the Bible:

                      John 3:3-15 (NIV2011)
                      >blockquote>He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

                      … and Jesus’ statement from the Bible:

                      John 3:5-7 (NIV2011)

                      Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

                      … I add Jesus’ statement from the Bible:

                      John 4:24 (NIV2011)

                      God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

                      Jesus, the prophesied Christ, the one Instructor Messiah, was born of the Holy Spirit propagating sexually, of water, with Mary, making him the only begotten Son of God and the Son of Man from God.

                      ALL other children born of water are in no way born of the Spirit and are not children of God able to enter into the kingdom of God, which is spirit on earth and in heaven where Jesus has ALL authority.

                      NO argument made by the Trump DOJ can make any fetus, any child, or any adult of mankind, born of water, a “child of God” clearly according to the Messiah as quoted in the Bible.

                      You are blindly making presumptions only to fit your definition of a child of God, or even a fetus known to God (thousands destroyed in the Law and the Prophets), as protected by God’s command to save by legislation. It isn’t true, and there is far more evidence in the Law and the Prophets that every fetus’ and child’s is the parent’s responsibility, not the community’s.

                      Your loss, because you are not born again. By your fruit you do not see, to know, to accept the Spirit of truth.

                      Children of God are only conceived in the Spirit to live eternally. Children of Man are conceived in the womb of a woman to live terminally.

                    11. Please tell in your own words what this verse is saying:

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:41 NASB

                    12. Wrong again, but keep trying

                      (11) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

      2. You should remember that breaking God’s commands is one thing but teaching others to do so is much more serious. What is abortion except baby killing? You don’t need anything but your eyes and ears to understand that.

        1. Bob, what is it with you and darel? Why don’t either of you understand that your word is not God’s word and your law is not God’s law? Show me God’s word and law as it is written in your only accepted “word of God”, please!

            1. You can’t show me God’s word and law?

              Do you understand that I know I have nothing to lose here, because I know I know the Spirit of truth with and in me always?

              You have everything to lose, that you wield as of value to you, if you cannot at least find validation in the Bible you say you trust as the word of God. I love you more than enough that I don’t want to see you lose or I wouldn’t have continued to reply to you; that and I don’t want to see those you mislead in your ignorance lose either.

              Find what refutes the Scripture I share with you in Scripture, or admit that Scripture cannot be the living word of God. Then you will be free to seek the living and available word of God for yourself and others … who you would do to as you would have them do to you.

                1. Acts 8:17-23 (NIV2011)

                  Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

                  When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

                  Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

                  I already received the Holy Spirit, full time, no pause, forever. I am not trying to by the gift of God! From what do you insist do I reflect upon and possibly repent?

                    1. Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB,

                    2. Acts 4:31 (NASB)
                      And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

                    3. But now, even with my help you can’t admit that the unborn have personhood. You are intelligent enough to explain that verse, right?

                      Put on your thinking cap or call somebody you trust, and asked them to help you understand what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                    4. I believe you quoted Jeremiah, regarding before he was conceived in the womb, the that, because I used the word “he”, also, make him a person so we should never legislatively allow a woman not to be pregnant for fear of missing someone that God saw as a person? You are ridiculous, if it’s okay to murder in war, send our children to protect us in war, to save our way of life, why is it not okay for a woman to save her way of life. Did Joshua actually destroy, kill, murder, every man, woman and child or not? Did God ask Abraham to sacrifice his son, authorizing that it was Abraham’s responsibility whether or not Isaac lived or died, not civil law?

                      Can’t you see that you make God evil, not loving, by demanding thou shalt not kill while simultaneously demanding that others kill in his name? Get your nose out of women’s, gay’s, immigrant’s and others’ lives in the name of God. The Bible does not give you any right to do so, especially through civil or “Christian” Shariah law.

                      But, the subject here, was what makes a child of God, not what makes a person.

                    5. Wrong, think before you write.

                      (5) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    6. Your lack of intelligence is showing.

                      (6) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    7. Take your time, and think, you can do this.

                      (8) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    8. You can do this Herm. Don’t let me down.

                      (9) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    9. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
                      Did Joshua actually destroy, kill, murder, every man, woman and child or not?
                      ===================
                      What would you have done if you were Joshua?

                    10. Luke 14:27 (NIV2011)
                      And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

                    11. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
                      Did Joshua actually destroy, kill, murder, every man, woman and child or not?
                      ===================
                      (2) What would you have done if you were Joshua?

                    12. Herm darel • 21 hours ago

                      Get your nose out of women’s, gay’s, immigrant’s and others’ lives in the name of God.
                      The Bible does not give you any right to do so, especially through civil or “Christian” Shariah law.
                      ==========
                      You are hearing voices.

                    13. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
                      Did God ask Abraham to sacrifice his son, authorizing that it was Abraham’s responsibility whether or not Isaac lived or died, not civil law?
                      ==================

                      Since that’s a question from your wicked mind, you surely can come up with a wicked answer. I will not help you in whatever wicked game you have in mind.

                    14. Okay darel, you are no more inspirational to God’s will than any other intentionally irritating troll. You have no Bible comprehension nor can you come close to speaking the word of God. You are blocked! BYE!!!

                    15. Herm darel • 13 minutes ago
                      You are blocked! BYE!!!
                      ===========

                      You are lying, and you know it. I will quote that lie of yours every time you engage me. I have shown you to be a sanctimonious fraud and your arrogance and pride won’t let you go away defeated.

                    16. Herm darel • 21 hours ago
                      Can’t you see that you make God evil, not loving, by demanding thou shalt not kill while simultaneously demanding that others kill in his name?
                      ===================
                      That’s your wicked concoction. Surely you can come up an answer just as wicked.

                    17. Herm darel • 20 hours ago

                      You are ridiculous, if it’s okay to murder in war, send our children to protect us in war, to save our way of life, why is it not okay for a woman to save her way of life.
                      =================

                      Most pro-abortions essentially say the same thing, Herm. You all seem seem totally oblivious to your wicked black hearts. You are worse, because you actually claim to have the Spirit of God. You have no shame.

                    18. John was born of the Spirit under the responsibility of his mother and the heavenly Father.

                      John 3:6 (NASB)
                      “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

                    19. Again, you run when to something else when confronted.

                      Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke

                    20. These are my own words assisted by the Spirit of truth:

                      John was born of the Spirit under the responsibility of his mother and the heavenly Father.

                    21. (4) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    22. Focus, you can get it.

                      (6) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    23. I’m patient, I can work with you, try again.

                      (7) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

                    24. Wrong again, but keep trying

                      (10) Herm, please tell me in your own words what this verse is saying.

                      When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Luke 1:41 NASB

                      Take your time.

        2. But, Bob, you don’t know him, you are of the world who cannot accept him, and neither can any fetus during being born of water see, to know, to accept him to be born of the Spirit. It is written clearly in your Bible. If this is not so, please show me, in the Bible, where it is written differently.

            1. I would call them hit men. Hit men have been found to be convicted, sprinkled, immersed, anointed and proud members of the Christian church, who carry their sword. I would call them Christians who are are hit men. I would not call them, as I cannot call you, a disciple of Christ.

              1. It seems you saying that hit men can become Christians, and I certainly would agree with that. However, back to you, how did you become a Christian?

                1. darel, you are a very frustrating. Has anyone ever told you that? You won’t read, to understand, anything that is too long and you can’t see the fullness of a point in anything too short. From all you share that indicates you read the reply, you do nothing but blindly force your point, without considering that you just might be wrong. You demonstrate no empathy for any who are not of your immediate family.

                  The same reason that individuals of mankind that ends with Muslims becoming Muslims, Jews becoming Jews, Christians becoming Christians, Buddhists becoming Buddhists, Hindi becoming Hindi, Agnostics becoming Agnostics, and Atheists becoming Atheists is what made me choose to become a Christian, the convincing fellowship, as a child and an adult, of my family and their community of influence.

                  I have grown well past any membership of any church but Jesus’ church. I grew beyond holding any allegiance to any form of corporate “Christianity” as practiced on earth today.

                  As I thought about it, having been a minister in Folsom Prison and a serious practicing theologian in the study of God, it is not so humorous, but true, that the Christian church has historically employed hit men to remove an opponent. Even worse, the many crusades that murdered thousands of men, women and children were sponsored by the Christian church in the name of God. NO true disciple of Christ carries a sword in place of their cross.

                  Fellowship of mankind led me to become a Christian. Relationship with the Spirit of truth freed me to fellowship in God as their child.

                  1. Translation – your claim of being a Christian is based on love. You say you love (talk is cheap) and then you say you love some more, it’s all about love, you love everybody, therefor you are a Christian, right?

                    Herm, was there ever a point in your life when you thought you were a sinner, and you had no personal relationship with God? Did you ever become aware that it was your sins that prevented you from having a personal relationship with God? Was there ever a point in your life that you realized there was nothing you could do to warrant eternal life? Did you ever have the thought that no matter how much you love others it was not enough? Did you ever realize that Jesus was the only man who ever lived a perfect sinless life, and that you could never do the same? Did you ever wonder why Jesus gave His life to die for your sins and the sins of all mankind? Did you ever read in the Bible that you could have forgiveness of your past, present, and future sins by confessing to God that you are a sinner deserving of hell, and then simply by faith accept what He did for you on the cross, and trust Him for your needed Salvation, and make Him the Lord of your life and serve Him?

                    The path you are on now is the path of meriting eternal life by doing good works. You actually believe that you are a good loving person and that you deserve eternal life. Do you love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and your neighbor as yourself? I hope that you don’t really believe that. But it does appear to me that you do. Herm, you don’t.

                    You need the Savior Jesus Christ, just like everybody else.

                    1. darel, that is not what Jesus said, but let’s start with what Paul told the Romans, please, for once, read this entire reply.

                      Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

                      Romans 8:1-11 (NIV2011)

                      “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

                      John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

                      Let’s keep this as simple as possible, if you do nothing more, or less, than the following you will live. If you do not do this before your physical body dies you will not live.

                      On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
                      “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
                      He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
                      “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

                      Luke 10:25-28 (NIV2011)

                      Sin is a trespass against the law that God knows all constructive life in relationship depends on, especially relationship in and of God. It is a myth that Eve and Adam sinned against the Father by eating fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They did not eat from the tree of life, so they were certainly going to die anyway, as all life in this universe dies. Only life in the Spirit does not die. No parent who loves their children wants them to not know and be responsible to the knowledge of good (constructive to relational life) and evil (destructive to relational life). All life to continue requires that in everything each does to each other first as they would have the other do to them first, measured as they love themselves.

                      By your fruit you are not fed by the vine rooted in Christ. The spirit of God, who so loves the world, does not live in you. How do I know so certainly?

                      You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

                      1 John 4:4-12 (NIV2011)

                      I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.

                      I hope, for the sake of your potential immortal soul you have read and considered all of this. You are loved!!!

                    2. darel, that is not what Jesus said, but let’s start with what Paul told the Romans, please, for once, read this entire reply.

                      Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

                      Romans 8:1-11 (NIV2011)

                      “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

                      John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

                      Let’s keep this as simple as possible, if you do nothing more, or less, than the following you will live. If you do not do this before your physical body dies you will not live.

                      On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
                      “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
                      He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
                      “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

                      Luke 10:25-28 (NIV2011)

                      Sin is a trespass against the law that God knows all constructive life in relationship depends on, especially relationship in and of God. It is a myth that Eve and Adam sinned against the Father by eating fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They did not eat from the tree of life, so they were certainly going to die anyway, as all life in this universe dies. Only life in the Spirit does not die. No parent who loves their children wants them to not know and be responsible to the knowledge of good (constructive to relational life) and evil (destructive to relational life). All life to continue requires that in everything each does to each other first as they would have the other do to them first, measured as they love themselves.

                      By your fruit you are not fed by the vine rooted in Christ. The spirit of God, who so loves the world, does not live in you. How do I know so certainly?

                      You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

                      1 John 4:4-12 (NIV2011)

                      I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.

                      I hope, for the sake of your potential immortal soul you have read and considered all of this. You are loved!!!

                    3. darel, that is not what Jesus said, but let’s start with what Paul told the Romans, please, for once, read this entire reply.

                      Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

                      Romans 8:1-11 (NIV2011)

                      “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

                      John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)

                      Let’s keep this as simple as possible, if you do nothing more, or less, than the following you will live. If you do not do this before your physical body dies you will not live.

                      On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
                      “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
                      He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
                      “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

                      Luke 10:25-28 (NIV2011)

                      Sin is a trespass against the law that God knows all constructive life in relationship depends on, especially relationship in and of God. It is a myth that Eve and Adam sinned against the Father by eating fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They did not eat from the tree of life, so they were certainly going to die anyway, as all life in this universe dies. Only life in the Spirit does not die. No parent who loves their children wants them to not know and be responsible to the knowledge of good (constructive to relational life) and evil (destructive to relational life). All life to continue requires that in everything each does to each other first as they would have the other do to them first, measured as they love themselves.

                      By your fruit you are not fed by the vine rooted in Christ. The spirit of God, who so loves the world, does not live in you. How do I know so certainly?

                      You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

                      1 John 4:4-12 (NIV2011)

                      I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.

                      I hope, for the sake of your potential immortal soul you have read and considered all of this. You are loved!!!

                    4. You wrote:
                      I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.

                      ===================

                      Herm, you are either lying or insane.

                      I go with lying.

                      You a sanctimonious fraud, Herm.

                    5. You wrote:
                      I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.
                      =================

                      You are a brazen liar Herm. You are a sinner Herm. You sin Herm, You have sinned Him. You will sin Herm. You are a sanctimonious fraud, Herm.

                      You have not, and you do not do, what you just said that you do – I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.

                    6. As you do not have the one Teacher, from whom all disciples and apostles of the Messiah do learn, by whose, or what, authority do you judge my relationship of God?

                    7. As you do not have the one Teacher, from whom all disciples and apostles of the Messiah do learn, by whose, or what, authority do you judge my relationship of God?

                    8. You are spiritually dead, SINLESS Herm. You actually wrote the following on Good Friday, the day Jesus Christ died on the cross for YOUR sins. You actually wrote the greatest LIE I have ever seen:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                      ================

                      You are so full of yourself, SINLESS Herm.

                    9. On “Good Friday” were you so obsessed with my claim as a child of God that you, too, judged me worthy of death?

                      Matthew 26:65-66 (NIV2011)

                      Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered.

                      What is your definition of “sin”? Would this suffice: an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law?

                      I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.

                    10. “On “Good Friday” were you so obsessed with my claim as a child of God that you, too, judged me worthy of death?
                      ================
                      No, but since you brought your false or deluded claim up, You are worthy of death according to the Bible, the word of God, the Scriptures.

                      You SINLESS Herm, actually wrote the most egregious lie I have ever seen from a person who does claim that he is a child of God, and You are going face that lie, time and time again, from me. You wrote:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                      Now, what you don’t understand is that no mere mortal person has ever keep that command of God. God gave the law to show us that we can’t keep it, and you are no exception.

                      You see, SINLESS Herm, the law brings death. You and I, and everybody else who try to keep the law are worthy of death simply because no mortal man has ever keep it,

                      But you SINLESS Herm come along and claim that you have! I venture to say that not even your mentor Keith Giles ever made such an outright stupid, even wicked, claim.

                      In your demented mind, you don’t need a Savior, because you are sinless. That lie from hell of yours just continually boggles my mind.

                    11. darel, what is your definition of “sin”. Why are you so obsessed with the sin of others? Would you have others obsess over your sins, threaten you with death because it seems that you cannot possibly live up to the sum of the Law and the Prophets, and, without any evidence submitted, call you a liar?

                      What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

                      But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
                      Romans 6:15-18 (NIV2011)

                      I am obedient to the sum of the Law and the Prophets and obey Jesus’ command that all the Law and Prophets hang on. You find that statement of truth a “sin” subject to death. Apparently, you are under the law as a slave to sin. I am forever a slave to righteousness. We know whose teaching claims your allegiance and it isn’t Jesus’ and the Spirit of truth’s.

                      You are really a helpless captive of your church’s dogma, doctrine and theologians. Jesus’ church has none of those.

                    12. Herm wrote:
                      darel, what is your definition of “sin”
                      ==============================

                      You SINLESS Herm, actually wrote the most egregious lie I have ever seen from a person who claims that he is a child of God, and You are going face that lie, time and time again, from me. You wrote:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                      SINLESS Herm, whatever your definition of sin is it certainly isn’t up to Bible standards. You have lied to me at least half dozen times since you said you blocked me. I told you shortly after you said that you blocked me that your were lying, and that you were so arrogant that you would keep reading my comments and you have proved me right.

                    13. You have no definition of sin! … and yet you’re a slave to sin.

                      darel, the truth would set you free!

                      Your repetitious accusations are hollow!

                    14. SINLESS Herm, it’s obvious that lying doesn’t fit YOUR definition of sin. I previously noted that you have lied to me many times. Now, lying is a sin, according to the Bible, the Scriptures, the word of God. My guess is that you don’t consider lying sin. And since you deny that the Bible is the word of God, I can see how you can come to that conclusion. That could also explain why you don’t deem Homosexuality sin either. In fact you don’t even see yourself as a sinner. You actually claimed that when you said:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    15. darel, history records the results of mankind’s senseless acts from “Christian” slaves to sin; witch hunts, scarlet letters, Crusades, slavery, shunning, and so many more violations to the Law and the Prophets. For disciples of Christ this ended with his crown of thorns and children screaming repetitiously ,”crucify him, crucify him”! Oh, how far you’ve strayed from Jesus’ flock! Happy Easter!

                    16. Sinless Herm, you are not in the flock. You are a false teacher as well as an habitual liar. You keep reading my comments and responding to my comments after saying that you blocked me.

                      But your greater lie by far is this statement of yours:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    17. darel, darel, darel, by the spirit of your father [John 8:44] our Father, unless you humbly reproach yourself from the results of your allegiance, will have no better choice, not out of punishment for your ignorant judgments but out love for his eternal own, but to abort you from the womb of his creation, this earth [Luke 6:37-42].

                      “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. …”

                    18. SINLESS Herm, your father inspired your lie from hell:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    19. Except you have said we should allow abortion under your “do nothing…” exception. So when you said, “I am obedient to the sum of the Law and the Prophets and obey Jesus’ command that all the Law and Prophets hang on” you did not mean it.

                    20. Pro-choice is empathy for others as I would have others have empathy for me. You and darel have nothing, nothing, to support your repetitive arguments except the peer group pressure from your worldly orthodox church family.

                      You deflect away from you and darel being obsessive slaves to sin, to your pet godless sense of worth, petty defenders of the unborn over the choice of the mother. You guys really stick your nose in where the bible counsels you to stay away!!!

                    21. You are spiritually dead, SINLESS Herm. You actually wrote the following on Good Friday, the day Jesus Christ died on the cross for YOUR sins. You actually wrote the greatest LIE I have ever seen:

                      “I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.”

                    22. It is you who claims no relationship with the Spirit of truth (spiritually dead?). It is you who is obsessed with “sin” (a slave to sin?). It is you who denies the words of your Bible, that you worship as the only “word of God” available to you.

                      What makes, what I said, a “LIE”?

                1. Fortunately, the Spirit of truth doesn’t censor any sharing from those who sincerely seek, knock and ask! Though, it is true that he will not share what we are not prepared to bear.

        1. He may have been a Christian but something happened to him. The war, personal problems or health issues may have played a part. I am praying for him.

          1. Thanks for doing for me all you know to do. Yes, someone happened to me, who, sadly, you are blind to. The Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit, happened to me just as it was written could happen outside orthodox religion 1,950 years ago. Read your Christian Bible! Happy Sabbath!

          2. Herm said:

            I do love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, and like that, I love my merciful neighbor as myself, as I do my enemy. For my love of this entire world I have put down my sword and picked up my cross. I invite you to do the same.
            ==================

            What say you?

              1. Bob leans to thinking that you are just mentally ill. He may be right. I see you having such a rebellious and hard heart that you actually believe that you are sinless, and are some great spiritual leader. You do have one consistent follower or perhaps worshiper, a otrotierra

                1. John 8:31-47 (NIV2011)

                  To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
                  They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
                  Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
                  “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
                  “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”
                  “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
                  Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

                  You are a slave to sin! You are not holding to Jesus’ teaching because you do not listen to Jesus. You don’t see him, to know him, to accept him.

          3. Thanks for doing for me all you know to do. Yes, someone happened to me, who, sadly, you are blind to. The Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit, happened to me just as it was written could happen outside orthodox religion 1,950 years ago. Read your Christian Bible! Happy Sabbath!

  13. I recommend every Christian check out the American Solidarity Party. It checks virtually every box that Christians on the right and the left say are most important to them.

    https://solidarity-party.org/

    If our witness is being tested as Mr. Corey says it is, we should not be content to choose between the lesser of two evils.

    1. John 16:12 (NIV2011)

      I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

      Matthew 27:21-24 (NIV2011)

      “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor. “Barabbas,” they answered.

      “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify him!”

      “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate. But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

      When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

      Jesus, and the Father of God, left the high priest of the most God fearing people in the country Caiaphas, and the Roman Governor, in office by the vote of the people. Those voters could not bear to accept God’s nurture offered with and in the Spirit of truth.

      As much as I agree with most of the platform for the American Solidarity Party, due to the prevailing spirit in this nation the people cannot bear to pursue a “more” perfect union on the following premise:

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men [and women] are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

      Brian Carroll has no hope of being elected president, and if he were, he would not have congressional support, no matter how adept a statesman he is.

      How about we elect the greater of two goods with the most chance of actually improving mankind as a whole?

      Good defined as constructive. Evil defined as destructive.

      1. Hey Herm…

        I don’t buy into the “it’s a binary choice” theory. Folks on the right and left tell me that by not voting for their preferred major party candidate it essentially means I’m supporting the other guy/gal. That’s nonsense.

        If we’re to be judged by non-Christians based on who we vote for (which I think is a lame, superficial standard), then I’m going to vote for the person that best reflects my views and what I think the Christian position on various policy issues should be, not settle for something less just because that candidate has a better chance of winning.

        1. Sam, it’s your vote, do with it as your heart and mind move you. The point, and I’m sure you heard it, if one of the candidates in the running will clearly, as judged by your educated, discerning and experienced heart and mind, destroy any and all voting from now on (time is of the essence) and the other will “most likely” protect your vote for next time (and no more), do you then do a write in vote for Jesus as your Lord?

          1. Herm…are you saying that this is what’s at stake in this upcoming election (one candidate is proposing to destroy all voting) or proposing a hypothetical for the sake of discussion?

            1. Sam, I am saying that your vote counts. Let your heart and mind be the judge whether this is the last chance for allowing it to be cast or not.

              1 John 4:6 (NIV2011)

              We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

                1. I’m not really, I simply don’t find happiness in watching others hurt. The first part of loving my neighbors as myself is to be empathetic with my neighbors.

                  This is real , not a delusion, and democracies, though still experimental and many already gone, are dependent upon making constructive choices, for the whole, not for a few.

                  Paranoia is characterized “by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system”.

                  1933

                  Hitler then obtained the necessary supermajority by persuading the Catholic Centre Party to vote with him with regard to the Reichskonkordat. The bill was passed on 23 March with 444 votes for and 94 against.

                  There is a strange, pseudo confidence builder going around that goes something like this for differing situations:

                  * I’m a survivor!
                  * The democracy of the USA will survive!
                  * God stand protects the USA
                  * …

                  I’m a Vietnam survivor and grieve too many who weren’t for fighting a bad war based on lies. I am only a survivor until I am not. The democracy of the USA will only be until it’s not. My Father “causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous”, equally.

                  Reality, as versus delusion, is consequential to every action an inaction. Human beings have the responsible capacity of awareness to direct, or redirect, their influence for more good (constructive) or more evil (destructive). We ate of that fruit and each mature to be responsible to that knowledge. A single vote in the USA is an influence each citizen over 18 is has the responsibility to wield for good or evil, as their heart and mind discerns is best, not perfect, but best.

            2. Yes he is saying that a re-elected President Trump will become a Dictator and cancel our representative democracy. He gets his information from Fake News and believes it. Why anyone would not understand that these slurs are simply the Left trying to avoid a Trump re-election is unimaginable to me. But some people are so invested in his destruction that they cannot think straight.

              1. 1 John 4:6 (NIV2011)

                We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

                You don’t know the Spirit of truth. You celebrate the king of the spirit of falsehood.

                Azar appears to walk back Trump’s comments at CDC that “anyone who wants a test can get a test” and that they are “perfect” … because those comments were ignorant lies from the father figure of our nation.

                President Donald Trump on Monday blamed what he called Saudi Arabia and Russia’s argument over oil prices CLJ20, -20.300%, plus “fake news” over the coronavirus for steep stock-market DJIA, -7.237% SPX, -6.959% losses.

                Everything that is verified as truth but disagrees with Trump’s lies is “Fake News”, including the coronavirus.

                We think, feel and act straight because we know there is not a “deep state” “coup” in force that justifies our whole “Intelligence” apparatus be dismantled, along with the CDC (not just Trump to blame on that one), the Consumer Protection Department, the FDA, the Environmental Protection Agency, and much, much deeper…

                You are blind! Do you really know why the global “Market” is tanking today, with nothing but to momentarily stop trading all together to moderate the fall?

                1. Are you watching the market today?
                  What has President Trump to do with the virus but try to help our people by taking appropriate actions with all our resources from the CDC and every other emergency agency? When he stopped flights from certain countries he was called racist by the demonic CNN lemmings.

                  1. You’re flying blind Bob. There are not enough tests for everyone as President Trump said there was.

                    1 John 4:6 (NIV2011)

                    We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

                    You don’t recognize the Spirit of truth, but you do follow the spirit of falsehood. We try to help you through your handicap of blindness to mitigate the damage cause by your spirit having gone viral.

                    1. Really. We are in the hands of the CDC and NIC. All a President can do is manage the situation. You have no one to blame but the media for fanning the flames of panic in this case. Better to listen to the head of the CDC rather than the nutcases on CNN…

                    2. It was the “nutcase” who broadcast to the nation that anyone could get a coronavirus test if they wanted one!!!

                      … deaf and blind ???

                    3. As usual you just makes things up based on your hatred of our President.

                      “In the wake of an increasing number of new coronavirus infections in the U.S., federal officials have provided confusing and sometimes contradictory statements about the number and availability of tests to diagnose the new respiratory illness.

                      President Donald Trump claimed on March 6 that anyone who “wants a test can get a test,” while Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar said in a television interview the same day that there “is no testing kit shortage, nor has there ever been.”

                      Contrary to both men, we were told by the Association of Public Health Laboratories on March 9 that although things had improved since a week ago, “demand for testing is greater than the tests available.”

                      At the same time, at least one Democrat has exaggerated the problems.

                      Former Vice President Joe Biden said on March 1 that the Trump administration didn’t “even have a test kit” for the new coronavirus. That’s not true. While the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is widely viewed to have bungled the rollout of its viral test kits, there was a test kit at the time, and it had been successfully used by the agency and some states.”

                    4. Bob, there is still, not even close, test kits for everyone who wishes, even by doctors orders, to be tested. The USA hasn’t even tested 10,000 of its 352 million citizens when South Korea is testing over 10,000 of its 52 million citizens every day. You believe every misrepresentation and lie that comes out of this administration, shame on you! This is only the beginning and we have no idea how many are infected today in the USA. So much for mitigation!

                    5. Hey Bob… Remember when Trump said he had it all under control and deaths would be 0.

                      Its weird that when countries were locking down, the US was carrying on like normal.

                    6. Trump made it clear that human life and suffering are irrelevant if they conflict with corporate profit.

                    7. You know what’s funny watching US politics from afar.

                      Dumb idiots who think the Democrats are leftists when they rejected one of the few ‘left’ policies which Conservative governments in most of the world take for granted eg Australia, Great Britain. Sleepy Joe and the Dems are right wing neoliberal centrists.

                      The Republicans in most other countries would be the far right lunatic fringe.

                    8. Amazing how it’s always someone else’s fault Bob.

                      In the war president Truman had a sign, ‘the buck stops here!’.

                      The only nutcase I hear is the one who said he had it all under control and deaths would be 0, then later saying it will be 200 000 dead.

                    9. I watched the completely one sided video you attached. It attempts to exonerate the Obama Administration for the lack of preparedness Trump inherited and blame the Trump Administration for its response. It is one-sided and agenda driven as is its founding organization.

                      “NowThis News is a progressive,[1][2] social media-focused, youth-oriented news organization started in 2012.[3][4][5]
                      NowThis News was founded by Huffington Post co-founder and former chairman Kenneth Lerer and former Huffington Post CEO Eric Hippeau. The company was started in September 2012.[6]”

                    10. The NY Times story appears to be what the Huff Post article was based on but I won’t register to read it. I was able to copy this headline. The NY Times is phony.
                      “The Racism at the Heart of Trump’s ‘Travel Ban’
                      Adding Nigeria to the expanded list of excluded countries just makes it more obvious.”

                    11. The Obama administration had developed a plan for response to a pandemic. Trump shut down that office.

                    12. The China Plague has spread throughout the world. No man, organization or government has stopped it.

                    13. 7 deaths in my state since the outbreak….

                      None in my city at all.

                      Yeah we’ve got it well contained.

                      But you’re too busy kissing Trump’s ring to see what other countries successfully do.

                    14. Yes, it would normally be best to listen to the CDC for advice. Unfortunately, under Trump’s CDC, politicians heavily edited scientific documents to make them more palatable. For example, normally, when the CDC finds disease spreading through a workplace, it mandates what the employer must do to alleviate the conditions so it can get back to work; for meat-packing plants in the Midwest that had become hotspots for Covid infections, illnesses, and deaths, the politicians edited the CDC mandates with recommendations to be considered, if practical. The result was that the meat-packing plants took no action except to get the legislatures to forbid all workers from using Covid as an excuse not to work. The plants continued to be hotspots and death traps.

                  2. What appropriate actions were they Bob?

                    South Korea and the USA had their first covid-19 case at the same time.

                    The difference being South Korea took it seriously. Trump didn’t.

                    Did trump have it under control like he said?

              2. Trump’s doing a pretty good job of literally killing the USA.

                Is Fox News still saying its just a flu and nothing to worry about?

            3. The measures in Georgia and Arizona would apparently allow the legislatures to ignore the voters and decide the election themselves. Current authoritarian governments at least pretend to follow majority rule.

        2. The presidential election comes down to a binary choice, because as it stands, third parties don’t have a chance. However, I agree that the simplistic adversarial interpretation of our vote is unwarranted. I also think we cannot be single issue voters because we have seen over the last few decades that the GOP has no intention of ever resolving their most dependable single issue.

      2. Ah! Caiaphas again. Time we learned a little about him:

        Joseph ben Caiaphas, known simply as Caiaphas in the New Testament, was the Jewish high priest who, according to the gospels, organized a plot to kill Jesus. He famously presided over the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus.

        Notice the similarity between Caiaphas, 2000 years ago, and Hillary Clinton; the Sanhedrin and the Democrat Party. I see no difference in their objectives really or in the outcome. Both failed and if there were a He** they all belong there.

        1. Bob, you are way out of your league. Between the general election candidates in 2015 there is only one who has been found guilty of fraud, both about his fund and his university, and it wasn’t Secretary Clinton.

          At least you found a synopsis of the high priest Caiaphas, the brother of Annas, also, high priest, both Sadducee, not Pharisee.

          Caiaphas succeeded, not failed, in branding the Son of God as a blasphemer leading to the Son of God being crucified in the name of God. I see much more similarity between you and he than he and Secretary Clinton.

          One thing is for certain, Mrs. Clinton is not a crook and was a very capable leader, quite the opposite of Trump.

          Why can’t you spell “Hell”, does someone’s retribution scare you? … your church? … your god of wrath?

      3. For the past 4 years, we’ve had a ruling party whose sole accomplishment was to give billionaires a $trillion tax break while passing the cost on to future generations. We have another party that most conservatives say is evil.

        How do your definitions fit these parties?

        1. Silverwolf13, you give witness to the accomplishment of one party while defining the other party only according to what the opposing party says. What is your witness to the “another party”?

          In your heart and mind, which party, by what they do, not what they say, most strives for a “more perfect union” where, eventually, maybe, the right to “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” is actually supported by all for all, coordinated by a government of the people, by the people, for the people — ALL PEOPLE?

        2. Silverwolf13, you give witness to the accomplishment of one party while defining the other party only according to what the opposing party says. What is your witness to the “another party”?

          In your heart and mind, which party, by what they do, not what they say, most strives for a “more perfect union” where, eventually, maybe, the right to “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” is actually supported by all for all, coordinated by a government of the people, by the people, for the people — ALL PEOPLE?

  14. Mr. Corey writes today – But here’s a funny thing: Jesus actually tells us what the final judgement will be like, and tells us what those heaven or hell issues are.

    However, on October 31, 2017, Mr. Corey wrote – I no longer believe in this concept of hell– I simply cannot reconcile it with a God who is in essence, “love.”

    Has Mr. Corey changed his mind about the hell Jesus spoke of?

    1. I have long been known to be an annihilationist. I have said I am a hopeful universalist, but even in the framework of Christian universalism there is also a concept of hell and punishment– it’s just temporary and restorative in nature.

      1. You differ with Jesus and the overwhelming majority of Christians.

        Jesus spoke of hell, a place of real everlasting torment, for those who refuse to accept Him as Lord and savior, for their sins against God.

        Jesus in Mathew 13:49-50 said – 49 So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

        Everyone knows that fire is torment. There is torment in hell, so Anihilation is impossible. “In that place” there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Anihlation would not allow “weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

        1. I am in agreement with Ben on this one. The Christian view of heaven and hell is not biblical but just Christian.
          Man for the most part will all be in the Kingdom of God which starts on this earth and spreads throughout the universe.
          The fallen Angels will be destroyed with Satan.
          There is no hell in the Plan of God for Man.

          1. But what do the Scriptures say? What does Jesus say? Who, are what is your authority?

            I used Scripture, you made no attempt to refute me.

            1. You misinterpreted the only scripture you quoted.
              “Everyone knows that fire is torment. There is torment in hell, so Anihilation is impossible.”
              You show no scriptures to support your commentary.
              If you do I will:
              You link Fire to Torment to no Annihilation. What scripture support these conclusions please?

              1. But I did.

                Here again the passage I cited – Jesus in Mathew 13:49-50 said – 49 So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

                If you no longer exist (annihilated) then you don’t have feelings, you are not tormented by fire. Furthermore, how can you weep and gnash your teeth, if you don’t exist?

                Please read again, the words of Jesus, the passage of Scripture I cited.

                1. I know that scripture well. Here is the background:

                  1. Christianity believes at death the soul is judged.
                  2. If they are judged good they go to Heaven to be with God if not they go to Hell to be with Satan. I’m not sure if Purgatory is still a Christian belief.
                  3. To be with either God or Satan you must be spirit as God is Spirit and not flesh

                  So what could that scripture be talking about regarding weeping and gnashing?

                  Let’s see if you agree with the above points 1 to 3 before I proceed. If not explain your differences please.

                  1. Sorry, but I’m not getting off the course of hell for the unbeliever, the unrighteous, who has rejected Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and go off into the weeds of where Christians go. Heaven is not the subject here.

                    So, please tell me what Jesus meant when He said that the unrighteous will be thrown into a lake of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth of the unrighteous, in that place.

                    Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else in Scripture. It is the place of torment for those who have rejected the Salvation that He offered to all mankind. Jesus cannot lie! Hell is real, Jesus said so.

                    1. Ok. You asked for it. But you won’t like it because all those people you believe should go to Hell won’t be there.
                      People who reject Jesus and people who never knew Jesus all die and their bodies go into the grave while their spirit goes back to God who is in heaven awaiting the First Resurrection spoken of in Ezekiel. At that resurrection they are raised with a physical body to a physical life where their minds will be opened and they will have their first chance to accept Jesus.This group is extremely large, about 15 billion people. I believe most will accept Jesus and enter the Kingdom.
                      But there will be some who refuse and those poor souls will be raised again in the Second Resurrection spoken of in John 5:29 . This group is the group you refer to as they await their fate in front of the Lake of Fire Rev. 20-14. They know they will be destroyed and remembered no more. This is why there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
                      While you may never have heard this or perhaps heard of it as “second chance” it is my belief.

                    2. WOW!!

                      Please tell me where you got that. What religious organization or sect teaches that?

                    3. I don’t know anything about your organization. Based on what you have said so far I strongly suspect that you are in a cult. Cult leaders are all false teachers and will surely spend eternity in hell.

                    4. It is obvious from this answer that you are insecure in your faith. If you cannot defend a major component of your faith, Hell, then you do not understand your faith. So you are the follower and may well be in a cult yourself.

                      Prove me wrong and answer the questions I posed instead of deflecting.

                    5. I have been defending the Biblical doctrine of hell all along. It is you who has deflected. You have yet to refute me. I refute you and you jump to something else. I use Scripture, even the words of Jesus, you use your own reasoning.

                      Your beliefs seem to be gotten from a Fred R Coulter who started his own faith and wrote his own Bible. He once was associated with Herbert Armstrong. You are following a cult leader.

                    6. I attend a non-denominational church. My past has been Baptist.

                      I have always been a member of churches that preach the Bible, that preach the doctrines of Scripture, and not the doctrines of men.

                      We don’t accept Homosexuals, atheists, perverts, fornicators and those who reject sound doctrine as members, and certainly not anyone like Herm, who denies that the Bible is the word of God. These don’t even want to be around the preaching of God’s word, so they are really not a problem in our church.

                    7. Thank you. I understand Baptist. We do not disagree on much but certainly the Sabbath.
                      The Christian Biblical Church of God is not a cult rather a Bible (NT and OT) based church.
                      When my Baptist neighbor explained to me in 1984 that I as a former Catholic did not understand the bible because Catholics don’t really read the bible I decided to find out if what she said was true. The Worldwide Church of God had the materials that helped me to read and understand the bible for the first time. It was remarkable to me how little I knew about anything biblical after 12 years of a Catholic education.
                      Herm is a special case, unlike the atheists and progressives, who needs help.

                    8. “Thank you. I understand Baptist. We do not disagree on much but certainly the Sabbath.’

                      What Sabbath are you talking about? Sabbath can mean Saturday, or Sunday and/or the regulations that go with it?

                      I seriously doubt that you are observing the Sabbath of the Bible.

                      Also, Christians deem the World Wide of Church of God a cult

                    9. Oh, but I did observe the “Lord’s Day” and the “Sabbath of the Bible” as an official under the umbrella of both Christian authorities. I have been sprinkled, immersed, and ordained by both Christian observers of Holy Days. I know where you are at, and who you are, as does Jesus, the Christ, today, because we’ve been there.

                      It is you, as spoken of in your Bible, who does not know the Spirit of truth living with and in you forever. Only Jesus, the Messiah with ALL authority in heaven and on earth today, who can baptize (immerse, whelm, fill) you in the Spirit. Only our heavenly Father can protect you from evil by offering you the opportunity to carry your own cross in love for this world. Good luck, we wish you well, darel.

                    10. You have hardened your heart.

                      You refuse to see your blasphemy.

                      You are not a Christian.

                      You made it known when you wrote:
                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    11. John 14:17-18 (NIV2011)

                      the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

                      I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

                      You refuse to see the Spirit of truth!

                      Use the Bible!!!

                    12. Herm, read the Bible, the word of God. If you sincerely seek God, he will convict your hard heart.

                      You are not a Christian.

                      You wrote:

                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    13. Herm, read the Bible, the word of God.

                      darel, I’ve used reference after reference from the Bible, which I do respect, and it is you who cannot refute those references. Your words are hollow.

                      You cannot answer, via Bible reference, any of my questions. You aren’t even nearly equipped to be able to debate scripture as were the Pharisees Jesus debated.

                    14. Herm read the Bible, the word of God that you reject:

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    15. Is your reading comprehension that low that you cannot take the bait? If you can use scripture, your Bible, to substantiate your judgment then do so. Don’t let all those who might be lurking see how limited your self-imposed arguments are. Repetition does not make anything so.

                    16. Believe the word of God Herm.

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    17. I will silently carry my cross for you! You have shown me no place in the Bible, much less from your blind and hardened heart and mind of spirit (the image of God), where the Bible even anoints itself as the word of God. And you have the nerve of Caiaphas to judge me as blasphemous. bye for now

                    18. Fun fact: the pharisees believed the Bible to be the Word of God too.

                      Thats why they killed Jesus.

                      As Jesus pointed out, religion based on laws and doctrine lead to death.

                    19. Why have you hardened your heart?

                      Why is doctrine and ideology more important than people?

                      Fun fact: Jesus wasn’t a Christian either.

                    20. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week still clearly seen on any calendar. Sabbath can never mean Sunday.
                      Catholics deem Protestants heretics as well. That does not carry any real weight does it?

                    21. Churches of God all follow a traditional pattern.
                      A church service is a formalized period of Christian communal worship. It occurs on Saturday.The church service is the gathering together of Christians to be taught the ‘Word of God’ (the Christian Bible) and encouraged in their faith.

                    22. You brought up the Sabbath. Sabbath can mean so many things to so many people. That’s why I asked for details.

                      You say you worship on Saturday. Fine. However, the vast majority of Christians hold worship services on Sunday. The Bible, the word of God, nowhere commands that Christians meet and worship on Saturday. Your practice of corporate worship on Saturday meets no standard set by God. Nor does worship by Christians on Sunday amount to any disobedience. Your church is free to meet, and hold worship services 7 days a week if you so desire.

                      You have no grounds to judge or fault Christians as wrongdoers for meeting and holding worship services on Sunday.

                    23. Really. I would suggest you asked for details to argue with me. I judge no one on the Sabbath.
                      The fact that the Sabbath was ordained from the foundation of this world is clearly stated in the bible. Gen. 2: 2-3
                      The fact that the Sabbath is still known correctly from the current calendar is due to the “oracles” Rom. 3:2
                      The fact that Catholicism changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday is best described in the article by Cardinal Gibbons ROME’S CHALLENGE
                      “Why Do Protestants Keep Sunday” This is stated without attendant obfuscation and cannot be denied.

                      Our great country has Freedom of Religion and that means you can worship any way, any day you please.
                      Whether that is the correct day, because ” the vast majority of Christians hold worship services on Sunday” is another question.

                    24. Bob, Genesis 2:2-3 has nothing to do with Christian worship, or any worship. Those verses simply state that God rested (ceased) from His work of creation.

                      Christians met and worshiped on Sunday long before somebody came up with the idea of Catholicism. Nowhere in the New Testament is worship commanded for Christians on Saturday. Nowhere in Scripture is it mentioned that Christians met for fellowship and worship on Saturday. In the New Testament, Christians always met for fellowship and worship on the first day of the week, which is Sunday.

                      Christians worship on Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

                      Do a google search Bob, and you will see that I’m correct.
                      Catholocism is rife with errors, flee from them.

                    25. Genesis explains what the Sabbath is for the uninformed.
                      Christians never met on Sunday as the Day of Worship in the NT or the OT and you would know this if you bothered to read Rome’s Challenge. But as they say you can lead a horse to water….There is no biblical support for Sunday worship in any shape or form.
                      Read Rome’s Challenge to Protestantism before you reply with some lame internet claim.
                      Meeting to worship on Sunday is a choice but it is not biblical – it has been directed by the Catholic Church.
                      Catholicism and Protestantism are both rife with errors.

                    26. You wrote “Genesis explains what the Sabbath is for the uninformed.”

                      Bob, you gave me Genesis 2:2-3 which did not prescribe worship on that day for anybody, most notably Christians. Are you trying to deceive?

                      Bob, you wrote “Christians never met on Sunday as the Day of Worship in the NT or the OT and you would know this if you bothered to read Rome’s Challenge.”

                      Oh, but they did, Bob. Christians did meet on Sunday in the New Testament:
                      “And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,” (Acts 20:7).
                      “1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come,” (1 Cor. 16:1-2).

                      Bob, you wrote: “There is no biblical support for Sunday worship in any shape or form.” Wrong Bob, as noted above.

                      “Read Rome’s Challenge to Protestantism before you reply with some lame internet claim.”
                      Rome has no hold or authority on me, Bob. Flee Catholicism Bob, they are rife with error.

                      There is no command for Christians to meet and worship on Saturday, in the Bible, Bob. Christians are free to worship 7 days a week if they want to, but there is no command regarding a certain day.

                      ­­­­

                    27. Bob, I forgot to include the verse below in my last response to you.

                      On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. Acts 20:7

                      Sunday is the first day of the week. As I said before Christians met and worship on Sunday. This has been the case since the inception of Christianity. The Catholic church had nothing to do with it. You need to get away from Catholic doctrine, they are rife with errors.

                      You are free to meet and worship on Saturday, just don’t feel that yours is the correct day and Sunday is not. The vast majority of Christians have always held worship services on Sunday, the Lord’s day, in celebration of His resurrection.

                    28. darel, you sadden me! I grieve for you, Bob and those you mislead wielding the fear of God’s wrath in place of the love of God.

                      Even as a little child, I know the Bible so much better than you, only because I have a better Teacher who shares as much as I can bear to know.

                      1 John 4:4-6 (NIV2011)

                      You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

                      Luke 18:9-14 — You thank God you are not like other people “Homosexuals, atheists, perverts, fornicators and those who reject sound doctrine“. The Pharisees, the high priests Annas and Caiaphas (who sentenced the Son of God to death in the name of God), and the teachers of the law (scribes) all taught and enforced “sound doctrine

                      Are you better trained in scripture than they? Are you even more versed in the reality of the Bible than I or Ben as seminary trained, college educated, pulpit speaking, hands on healing ministers of God’s love?

                      You are so assured, out here trying to proselytize your non-denominational church and/or Bob’s Christian Biblical Church of God to those of us from God, that you can’t see that you don’t know God any further than you are taught what the Bible says. You can’t hear that all we are sharing is that the really GREAT NEWS is that God can teach you all you ever need to know directly without any physical walled churches, doctrines, dogmas, rituals, chants, rabbis, preachers, Pharisees, Sadducee, teachers of the law, Internets, radios, televisions and without any books. You don’t know God is real, in your midst and grieves for you.

                      Relative to the gnashing of teeth found in Matthew 8:10-12, 13:47-50 and Luke 13:28 you might consider that such was from those who survived in grief for those whose awareness and influence was cleansed forever from all other life

                      Ben, long ago, wrote much relative to hell, which can be found via the “Post Archives” above. This came from one such article:

                      Hell – γέεννα (Gehenna) The Valley of the Son of Hinnom

                      …was the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem; this was the place where both garbage and dead bodies would be discarded and consumed by a fire that was likely always burning.

                      https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/what-jesus-talked-about-when-he-talked-about-hell/

                    29. Herm, you are not a Christian!!!

                      Somebody needs to tell you that, so, it might as well be me.

                      You made it known when you wrote:

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    30. By whose authority do you declare that the Bible, where there is no longer any autographed copy anywhere known to Man, is the “word of God”?

                      Are all “Christians” children of God?

                      Was it not God’s chosen authorities of God who had the self confidence to crucify God’s Son in God’s name?

                      I don’t give a damn whether you, or your non-denominational church declares me a non-member! You won’t allow “Homosexuals, atheists, perverts, fornicators and those who reject sound doctrine” and Tax Collectors to be in your select group of inspired interpreters of Bible truth. No child of God, sibling of the Christ, would presume to judge another for membership in Jesus’ church because they all know the one Judge, for all things eternal, in them and they in him.

                      Now, if you would like to actually study what the Bible actually says, what the Gospel truth is, I can do that with you, just as much as you can bear. More importantly for you, I can introduce you to whom Jesus pointed, throughout in Gospel quotes, to as the one Source for the real live word of God. I am only a very young child student with and in God, their child. The “River of Life”; John 4:14, Revelation 21:6, 22:1, 17.

                      As it is today your judgement and condemnation hold no more truth than did Caiaphas’ judgment and condemnation. Both of you derive your awareness of God from scripture and not at all from a one in one relationship with God. Neither of you can, in the moments of each of your edicts, recognize the Spirit of truth being demeaned before you.

                      You are loved and welcomed exactly as you are today, whether or not you ever enter the kingdom of heaven. The God of creation, protection, providing, teaching, and all love, the Messiah’s God, in whose image is made ion Man, could not torture even the worst, most evil, of their enemies forever. Your faith in blindness, if left to continue until your physical body goes back to its elements, will die to no longer be aware or influential. We will grieve our loss! You are loved even in your destructive behavior.

                    31. Herm, you are not a Christian!!!

                      You made it known when you wrote:

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    32. So????????? What is the penalty for that? What is the penalty for not being baptized in the Spirit of truth forever by Jesus, the Christ?

                      Please, answer with more than your self-ordained authority?

                      Use the testimony from the Bible if you wish to begin with.

                    33. So, you are not a Christian, that’s what.

                      You made it known when you wrote:
                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    34. If the Bible is your full authority to judge me, then show me where I must be a “Christian”, or a member of any worldly administered religious order, to be an eternal child member of God today, please!!!

                      Otherwise, your authority is world based not God based. Who is your teacher and your lord?

                    35. If the Bible is your full authority to judge me, then show me where I must be a “Christian”, or a member of any worldly administered religious order, to be an eternal child member of God today, please!!!

                      Otherwise, your authority is world based not God based. Who is your teacher and your lord?

                    36. You refuse to see your blasphemy. You are not a Christian.

                      You made it known when you wrote:

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    37. Thank you darel, according to the Bible, you place me in good company. Do you judge me, also, “worthy of death”?

                      Matthew 26:62-68 (NIV2011)

                      Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?”

                      But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

                      “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

                      Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

                      What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered.

                      Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?”

                      Luke 14:27 (NIV2011)

                      And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

                      Do you carry your own cross?

                    38. Herm, if you hear God’s voice, harden not your heart.

                      You refuse to see your blasphemy.

                      You are not a Christian.

                      You made it known when you wrote:
                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    39. Apparently the Bible isn’t authority enough for you to refer to it. I rest my case.

                    40. You are not a Christian.

                      You made it known when you wrote:
                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    41. You are beginning to see your problem. Turn your heart toward the Bible, the word of God, Herm

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    42. The word of God is in my heart, soul and mind, right now, as it is written in your Bible.

                      You are blind, even to what your Bible actually says and who it points to.

                      Do you have any references for the interpretations you are judging by?

                    43. Your words, yoiur blasphemy.

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    44. No, you agree with me.

                      You wrote:

                      Herm darel • 5 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    45. NO, darel, I love you even with your handicaps, I don’t find your spirit of falsehood agreeable. In no way, do you, in everything, do to all others first as you would have all others do to you.

                    46. The golden rule is not a shield to be used against those who differ with your statements. What you often write is not in accord with the bible and we simply point it out to you.

                    47. Bob, the sum of all scripture was not used as a shield. If you and/or darel want others to judge and or condemn you each, especially for blasphemy founded on unsubstantiated falsehoods then continue to do what you have been doing for you are doing to others, in everything, what you would have others do to you.

                      As an example, of your unsubstantiated falsehoods, you just wrote: “ What you often write is not in accord with the bible and we simply point it out to you.

                      If what I wrote is not in accord with the Bible, where is it written in the Bible? You know, like where can it even be interpreted that the “golden rule” is not a shield to be used against those who disagree with my statements, or yours…or God’s?

                    48. So, he departed from them and gone elsewhere. Who knows where he goes next week or what he believes next week.

                    49. I don’t think Herm ever said he was in that Church. I don’t believe Herm is in any church at this time. Perhaps he will enlighten us?

                    50. Well, he is not a member of any Christian church and that’s for sure. He is so arrogant and haughty that it is likely that the cults would not have him either.

                    51. Herm • 9 minutes ago
                      Did Jesus, the Son of God, refuse to see his blasphemy, also?
                      =========
                      Another egregious blasphemy from you!!!

                      That is appalling Herm. There seems to be no bounds to your wickedness.

                      Seriously, you need a time out. You may have reached the point of no return.

                    52. Christian originally meant “Christ like” and/or “little Christ”. You do not emulate Christ in any way. You are much more like a little Caiaphas or Annas who choose to crucify children of God by calling them blasphemous!

                    53. Yes! How would you answer the accusation of blasphemy?

                      The only one in the Gospels accused of blasphemy was Jesus, the Christ, found in the word “Christian”. When does Man learn that claiming to know God, solely by testimonial scripture alone, does not make you an authority sufficient to judge God, or children of God, in God’s name? Caiaphas knew scripture but didn’t recognize God in his midst.

                    54. Your church has no problem with liars and those who vote for liars and adulterers.

                      Hypocrites much?

                      When you get around to reading and understanding the Bible let me know.

                      Hell will freeze over before that happens.

                    55. …. did you know that there is only one organization of Jesus’ church, worshiping in the Spirit of truth?