Benjamin L. Corey

Benjamin L. Corey

BLC is an author, speaker, scholar, and global traveler, who holds graduate degrees in Theology & Intercultural Studies from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and received his doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller. He is the author of Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus, and Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith.

Why The Religious Right Just Passed Up The Deal of a Lifetime

And this is why the Religious and Conservative Right just rejected the chance to have a President Mike Pence:

The Religious Right was just presented the opportunity to have everything they ever claimed to want– and yet they rejected it.

As the initial dust begins to settle from the 3rd impeachment in U.S history, the biggest story isn’t that the Religious Right re-embraced Donald Trump… the bigger story why the Religious Right fought hard to reject giving the presidency to Mike Pence.

When decrying the possibility that Donald Trump could be removed from office, they spoke of how it would “overturn the will of the people” as if removing Trump from office would mean replacing him with a liberal Democrat, when it’s the extreme opposite that’s true.

The overlooked angle of the impeachment of Donald Trump is the fact that the Religious Right had total power to swear Mike Pence in as President yesterday— and Mike Pence is everything the Religious Right has always claimed they want in a president.

In addition to all of the usual conservative bonafides, Mike Pence has the extra membership cards that Trump only pretends to have:

Unlike Trump, Mike Pence is a no-kidding legit Evangelical Christian.

Unlike Trump, Mike Pence is a person of deep conviction and devotion to his faith.

For those on the Religious Right, Pence literally has every box checked that a politically and religiously conservative individual would ever want in a president. Even as someone who radically disagrees with the entire administration, including Pence, I have no doubt that Mike Pence is a devoted Christian and person of deep and authentic principle.

Not only did the Right pass up someone who would be a conservative Christian’s dream president, they passed up the opportunity to get him by way of doing their two most favorite things in the world: Professing their own moral superiority and condemning the sins of others.

The Religious Right had the opportunity of a lifetime: They could have stood up and pronounced messages such as, “Character counts, no one is above the law, Trump’s gross immorality is a disqualification from the presidency…” or what would have been the most compelling message of, “Hey look at us– we are the people so devoted to principle that we removed our own president from office.”

(I’ve seen them do this in churches a thousand times.)

Yes, they could have taken a bold stand for principles in a way that would have made them look like they really believed it, and as a reward they could have immediately handed the presidency to a man who fits the bill for every single quality they have ever professed to want.

But they didn’t. (Cue “Didn’t We Almost Have It All”)

The big question is, why?

Well, the answer to that is quite simple: They know that Trump is a man who does not have a real moral anchor and who does not have unwavering devotion to guiding ethics he will not budge from– and they know that Mike Pence is the exact opposite.

It’s like Franklin Graham’s daddy said years ago:

“It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it.” – Billy Graham

And this my friends is why the Religious and Conservative Right just rejected the chance to have a President Mike Pence:

It’s because a person without conviction can be used and manipulated– and for as much as the Religious Right is a manipulated pawn of Donald Trump, Donald Trump is also a manipulated pawn of the Religious Right.

As for a person of authentic conviction and deep devotion to faith and principle?

Well, as Mitt Romney demonstrated yesterday, a person of deep moral principle and devotion to faith is actually far more unpredictable and difficult to manipulate and control than a man who has no devotion to anything other than his own self interest.

Yes, America, if the Religious Right truly believed what they’ve been saying all these years, they almost had it all… feelings of moral superiority, long romantic walks on the beach, candlelit dinners, President Mike Pence…

But instead, they have simply proven Billy Graham’s concern:

The Right has no real interest in anyone they might not be able to control or manipulate— meaning Donald Trump was a far safer bet than Mike Pence.

(And if you don’t believe me, just sit back and watch how they devour Mitt Romney for sticking with his sincere and deeply held religious convictions.)

Benjamin L. Corey

Benjamin L. Corey

BLC is an author, speaker, scholar, and global traveler, who holds graduate degrees in Theology & Intercultural Studies from Gordon-Conwell, and earned his doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller.

He is the author of Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, and Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus.

It's not the end of the world, but it's pretty #@&% close. Trump's America & Franklin Graham's Christianity must be resisted.

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185 Responses

  1. Mr. Corey is arguing that the “religious right” should have urged Republican Senators to remove a sitting President from office because it would result in someone who is a card-carrying member of the religious right gaining the Presidency and also so they can burnish their “we have principles” bona fides.

    Think about Mr. Corey’s advice for a minute. This is not how Senators should approach the question of impeachment. The questions should be whether or not the things the President has been accused of are true and do they warrant removal? Whether the Vice President would be a better person to occupy the oval office or whether voting to remove would provide a particular Senator an opportunity to prove his or her character shouldn’t enter into the question. I realize the whole impeachment affair was a highly political gambit from start to finish and there was all sorts of gamesmanship going on, but a Christian should not be giving advice to elected officials based on those motives. Mr. Corey is engaging in worldly thinking.

    By the way, can this blog cram any more distracting crap onto the blank spaces around the articles? There are really not enough ads and pop-ups and stuff.

    1. Well said. The President was elected. He does not serve at the whim of the majority in congress. They will live to loathe their political decision to ichmpeah.
      We are conflating politics and religion because politics sells.

      1. Well, he does serve at the “whim” of Congress if a majority of the House and a 2/3rds majority of the Senate agree that he’s done something that warrants removal from office. But that’s the question Members of Congress should be asking, not whether removing the President would result in someone more aligned with their views would take over.

  2. The Justice Department has decided the sentencing guidelines for Roger Stone are too harsh and told the prosecutors to revise them downwards.

    Watch all the Liberals and Leftists howl especially after four Prosecutors have just resigned in indignation.

    Wait until Trump pardons Stone and we count the heads exploding!

  3. Mitts only regret is his income will be affected. All that’s happening is because the crooks in government have been found out. They gave billions to Iran and more only to get kickbacks. They hate Trump for that reason!

    1. Exactly. Draining a swamp full of alligators is messy as they thrash around.
      This is happening all over the globe. Case in point Joe Biden. His son, his brother and himself have slurped up at the trough of corruption. When this is pointed out the Left screams Trump, Trump , Trump.

      I believe this is the main reason why Obama failed to endorse Joe: corruption about to be exposed.

      And if any of you haters have some type of proof of any investigation, or approval of Joe’s actions let’s see it.

  4. Abortion is murder! What don’t you understand about that?! A woman does have the right to choose…..if she doesn’t want children there are ways to prevent pregnancy! Not murder!

    1. I will not strain your overwhelming sense of maternal instinct, necessary for the physical survival of our species, any further than I have to, but abortion is not more murder than sending our healthy adult children into war, for the survival of our way of life. The terrorist drones we employ to remotely kill our enemy is, also, murder. I sympathize with your emotions, especially since I have felt very much the same emotions in mourning the loss of a child, but life is a balance of considerations before we can responsibly choose life or death for ourselves, and ours. If we choose to continue to give up (murdering) our adult children, to protect our way of life at home, then choosing to give up (murdering) our fetus children to protect the mother’s way of life isn’t any different. It is our choice for both, and both should always be tempered in heart and mind with diligent education and counseling.

      I do not support abortion as a solution, nor do I war.

      I support freedom of choice for all and each of mankind as to how their body (of self and species) is used to support and propagate its own.

      I love my body in the image of carnal Man and my body in the image of spirit God. Both are an opportunity I choose not to squander. My body within the body of Man will perish, no matter what I do. My body within the body of God is promised to never die. The measure of good influence, as versus evil influence, from my responsible body of either, is determined by how much, in everything, I choose to do to all others (of Man and God) first, as I would have all others do to me. If my life hinders another, or in sacrifice of furthers another, in their journey to attain an eternal adventurous life of shared love in spirit, then I gladly choose to painfully give it up on the cross I carry. If the child I chose to be born of me chooses to destroy others, even as an adult, I would feel responsible to ending her/his reign of terror, even unto murder. I have three who choose to, in everything, do to others as they would have others do to them. For them I thank God and wish the same for all other parents of Man.

      Sorry, I hurt you further, but too often truth hurts! I do, in full empathy, love you!

  5. I understand the thought behind this post, but I don’t believe the analysis is correct. Yes, Mike Pence could check off all the boxes of being a Christian. And if the religious right wanted a Christian in the White House to begin with, THEY WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR MIKE PENCE. But they didn’t. It’s not like NOBODY KNEW that Trump wasn’t exactly a moral person to begin with. The people who voted for him KNEW THAT HE WAS MORALLY BANKRUPT TO BEGIN WITH, and yet they voted for him anyways. Why? Because Donald Trump promised to actually stand up and fight for the religious right. He promised them that he would not be timid. And unlike the Romneys or the Bushies, who pander to the religious right when running for office, and who, after winning the election, find it too difficult to actually make time for those voters, Trump is actually doing what he said. Indeed, Trump is THE ONLY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT EVER, who was actually able to make the time to attend the annual March for Life. And that speaks volumes to his supporters. And lastly, let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that if Trump had been removed from office, the desire of Democrats to impeach would have subsided. It would then just be Mike Pence facing impeachment instead of Donald Trump.

    1. Mike Pence, never once invested in his political career by claiming, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that President Obama was born in Kenya. Mike Pence, never once accused “illegal aliens” seeking asylum of being murdering drug running rapists. Mike Pence, not once, taunted and rallied a mob to chant “lock her up” for no crime, other than what he said was a crime. Mike Pence, never once abused his foundation fund to support himself. Mike Pence, never once tried to con anyone into buying into his legally fraudulent University. Mike Pence, other than quoting Donald Trump, never once intentionally lied or misled over 15 thousand times in the last three years. Mike Pence did not make any attempt to squeeze another sovereign head of state to investigate his potential political rival and to investigate where a company located in Sunnyvale, California hides the DNC server?

      No, though I do not agree with Mike Pence’s political beliefs or ability to lead, I can guarantee to you that Mike Pence would not be facing impeachment instead of Donald Trump. Are you a Russian bot? I think I recognize your spirit on Facebook during the 2015 race, even flashing the all mighty dollar as your avatar.

      1. It doesn’t matter that Mike Pence hasn’t actually committed any crimes. Impeachment is a political process. And I’m confident reason would have been found to impeach him if Trump had been removed from office. And to be honest, I really believe that most everyone doesn’t vote in elections based solely upon a morality “checklist” of candidates, but rather vote in a transactional nature. That sometimes, you have to take the good with the bad. In this case, that they may see moral contrasts as black and white, but see voting for a morally compromised figure whose administration pushes back against progressivism as a shade of grey. I also believe it happens across the political spectrum. You vote for the candidate that you best think will accomplish those things that you would like to see done.

        1. Jonathan, the impetus for seeking to remove Donald J Trump from representing the United States of America, was not based on a morality checklist. Donald Trump’s habitual and intentional lying, misrepresenting the truth, bullying, demeaning, intimidating, and manipulating (no where near Mike Pence’s more human penchant for such offenses to a nation, whose Declaration of Independence claims all men (now amended to humans) are created equal with the unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) is far more divisive and destructive to our nation, and the world, than a mere difference of morality. The actual legal remedy pursued, impeachment, was founded on a real high crime and misdemeanor that threatens our entire experiment as a Democratic Republic where the good of all is represented.

          He did it. He held back funds, without consulting congress which is the law, from an ally at war (time is of the essence) to derive a personal benefit by insanely searching for the DNC server and to get dirt on a potential political opponent. He has shown no transparency so that you even know if he is as independently wealthy as he claims (significant to motive), if he is representing us constructively to the world, if he is plotting with other world autocrats against the wishes of his constituents, if he is doing other crimes against the state, if he is ???, …. Transparency is necessary for the checks and balances for our nation’s survival, by constitutional mandate, so that each co-equal branch have oversight to protect the people and the nation.

          Mike Pence is no more a threat to the survival of our nation than was either George Bush. No one even considered impeachment of those Presidents.

          We have a President in office who begins by invalidating the entire fourth estate (another check and balance) when they dare to disagree with him. We have a President in office who cleans out all who testify, under oath, to the truth as best they know it, subject to public witness and counter questioning, and will not submit to questioning under oath himself.

          Just how much damage can a lying, misrepresenting, concealing the truth, intimidating, manipulating, vindictive, fear mongering, head of state do in 11 more months, without any oversight or remedy?

          Just how much potential bad are you willing to trust to this autocratically (only I!) leaning President?

          1. I’m not saying that impeachment was based on morality or a lack thereof. But this article was attempting to analyze why religious conservatives didn’t jump at the opportunity to have Mike Pence as President. The article reaches the conclusion that they passed up on that opportunity because they are hypocrites when it comes to their moral beliefs. When many on the religious right initially voted for Trump, they didn’t do so based on his personal morality. They voted for him based upon more complex factors. The same held true during the impeachment process. Plus there may have been other additional factors that influenced their thinking when it came to impeachment and removal from office. Maybe they don’t think Mike Pence would put up the same fight on issues important to them. Maybe they think Mike Pence would be too timid as a Pesident in this day and age. That maybe turning the other cheek would lead to him resigning or giving up on issues when push came to shove. That maybe they believe it wouldn’t matter which Republican candidate was in office, that whoever it was still would have been impeached. It could be any number of reasons beyond just sheer hypocrisy. It’s like someone who says they oppose racism of any kind, but that same person still supports Governor Ralph Northam. I’m sure there would be some out there on the right, who would criticize those people as being hypocrites when it comes to actually opposing racism. But maybe those Northam supporters thought he was the best candidate to get gun legislation passed, that they liked his commitment to women’s control over their own bodies, and that despite his past, he has done some very good things to improve the lives of minorities in the state…and that’s why they support him remaining in office as opposed to him stepping down and the Lt Governor taking his place. That yeah, him wearing blackface doesn’t align with what they believe about racism being evil, but they are willing to overlook his personal life/past because they judged him best man for the job of Governor right now. Because they felt he will put up a stronger fight, and actually get things done when it comes to issues his supporters hold dear. For them, it’s not hypocrisy….it’s transactional and realist. That’s all I’m trying to say.

            1. Read what you just wrote. On first, second and third read I can’t help but hurt with the knots you appear to have tied yourself in, trying to defend why stacking the courts in favor of anti-abortion, no contraceptives and singularly minded freedom of religion in public arenas, AT ALL COST (even to risking the demise of the nation under God and any semblance of morality), is not hypocritical from a body of religious folks touting the sum of the Law and the Prophets, according to their Lord God, is, IN EVERYTHING, do to others as you would have others do to you.

              I don’t agree with Mike Pence but isn’t he more representative of the advertised Evangelical Christian values than Donald J Trump? Would they enlist the services of the bully Satan if they felt he would achieve for their cause better than the sacrificial Jesus Christ? Whatever happened to you can only serve one master?

    1. … all who are willing to tell the truth to the world under oath and be questioned by both sides, including by Trump’s accusers and those who won’t accept the truth to protect their party over the good of their nation.

      It is sad that those protecting the art of the con, led by the master of demeaning vindictive hate driving fear into all public servants, are the clear representatives, to all the rest of mankind, of the United States of America. That’s who win to clean house of the truth tellers.

      You doubt what I say? Put Trump under oath for examination, and cross examination, with the nation watching for many hours as were all those cleaned from honest service to our country.

      Don’t reply to this, it will only make it even more clear, to those who care to become a more perfect nation for all, honestly, that you either lie or cannot tell the difference between a lie and the truth. You are not the master debater you think you are. You cannot discern the truth enough to convince those who can. That doesn’t even rise to the level of sad for it is tragic to all of mankind. Get behind us Satan!

        1. Did Lieutenant Colonel Vindman tell the truth, to the best of his ability under oath, relative to what he heard President Trump say on the phone? Do you believe President Trump has lied, at anytime, relative to what Lieutenant Colonel Vindman testified to under oath?

            1. You did not hear his testimony. He testified to what he heard as the Ukrainian expert in the room. You are deceived by the President’s defensive obfuscation.

              1. I read it. Vindman stated he listened to the call with others from NSC and that “As the transcript is in the public record, we are all aware of what was said.” There it is. In his opinion the call was a problem. But it wasn’t because the Senate has voted that it wasn’t.
                I read the transcript months ago and the connection to Biden is not as the House has continually stated. The Senate of the United States has also decided that the call did not rise to an impeachable offense. This was known to the House before “woble-woble” succumbed to the Left and issued the Articles without a full House vote. It is over and the Left lost. Now Vindman1 and Vindman2 are removed from the NSC and Volker who paid a million dollars for his Ambassadorship is going to be out.
                You lost. We won. Trump will be re-elected with 70 million votes and take back control of the House as well.

                1. You haven’t won dip! If Trump is re-elected that will be the end of the democratic republic. No one wins. Truth is not a win or lose proposition. The truth is that Trump did a high crime injurious to the safety of our nation for personal reasons. The truth is the Senate Republicans did not honor their oath out of fear of Trump’s retribution. The truth is you see that as Trump being strong. You seem to find great pleasure in supporting he who lies and find some joy to be losing honest public servants. You’re so bound in the continual lie that you will not realize the error of your ways until it is too late. For your sake, try to choose your future actions founded on Matthew 7:12, for a change!

                  1. Sore losers are still losers.
                    Tell us what Trump will do if re-elected to end our system of government?
                    Your candidates are spouting Socialism over Democracy. Are you that dim? Is socialism not the end of our Republic as we know it.

                    1. Neither the Republic or the Democracy of the United States of America are threatened with Socialism as patterned by Sweden, the Netherlands, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and others guaranteeing equality of healthcare and education for its citizens. No Democrat candidate is suggesting replacing the Republic or the Democracy as is the United States today. Every candidate is proposing regulating the destructive influence of corporate greed that makes the U.S. more a corporatocracy than a democracy today.

                      Capitalism is the equal and opposite of Socialism. Neither determine whether, or not, a nation, is a Republic and/or a Democracy. If you read the Constitution, especially as the framers were influenced by the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers, you would understand that there is nothing within that denies benefits to our nation from Socialism, but there is everything that fully opposes autocracies (like Communist/Democracy Russia/Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Nazi Germany, and Turkey), monarchies, and dictatorships.

                      China and Russia are clear autocracies still supporting today their need for capitalism. The United States of America is supporting today their need for socialism with Social Security, public schools, Medicare, and Interstate Highways.

                      Trump, obstructing transparency for oversight along with his “only me” attitude of my way or the highway, are driving the United States of America toward an autocracy, no less undemocratic than were the governments of dictatorial autocracies of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin, who both cleaned house of the honest public servants who opposed their rule. Trump has already said that his vocal opponents were committing treason and should be hanged! Trump has said that honest reporting of his offenses were treasonous and will be cleaned from his administration. Is that a democracy welcoming freedom of speech, freedom of religion and recognizing that, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men [and women, by amendment today] are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

                      Does not, in everything, do to others as you would have others do to you scream, that as a self governed body (democracy) we do our most to provide access to all of our members a capably discerning education, as much as each can bear, and healthcare (physical, social and spiritual)? Just think, there would then be more resourceful neighbors who could do real constructive good for you. There would be less destructive big pharma self-profit motive influence and hoarding affecting your neighbors to threaten you. There would even be less influence of neighboring capitalistic drug cartels because their US market would be much less.

                      You aren’t listening nor discerning enough to think for yourself. You are no different than the masses who hailed Adolf Hitler as only he could save them.

                      You embraced unregulated capitalism and removing all socialism. Freedom of religion to you is only freedom of your form of Christianity. Freedom of speech to you is only freedom for those who agree with you, otherwise you don’t listen and research on the off chance you might be somewhat wrong. Love your neighbor as yourself to you is only for those neighbors who agree with you, otherwise good riddance when your god cleans house.

                      These are not the same talking points, nor a repeat of what I wrote to others like you. Read and heed for these words are researched and as best as I can do for you and yours.

  6. The above reflects a complete misunderstanding of fundangelical Republican morality, in which “right” and “wrong” are purely a matter of which side you are on, not anything you might do, say or think, or any practical thing you might achieve (that would be “works righteousness”). To be righteous is to support the right team and its appointed leader; the leader’s guilt or innocence, behaviour, morality, religion or personal qualities are irrelevant. They aren’t even particularly relevant in picking a leader either: the faithful will support whoever most looks like advancing the interests of Team Righteous over everyone else and smiting it’s real or imagined enemies rather than based on any other qualities. Any other outcome to this “trial” would have been the surprising thing.
    Mitt Romney is the surprising thing. Some people have talked about him suddenly developing a conscience, or something, but I don’t think this can be it. If we assume Romney is still acting in accordance with fundangelical Republican righteousness, then one can see him as the first rat to panic that adherence to Trump is going to sink the Republican Party and / or fundangelicalism, and abandon ship. He’s positioning himself to say “I told you so” if it all goes down.

    1. Not only is it a fundamental misreading of how Donald Trump enthusiasts on the right think, it’s also a fundamental misreading of what the impeachment process is supposed to be.

  7. The Senate acquitted President Trump on both Articles of Impeachment.
    The vote was not close and as expected. Only 47/48 Senators voted to convict or 20 less than required. That is a resounding rebuke to the Congress and thier faux impeachment. The impeachment was a monumental mistake by the Democrats and they had been advised/warned not to attempt it. They will now pay the price.

    Vice-President Pence cannot accomplish what Trump has and will accomplish. Trump is the rare person who can thumb his nose at the Media, the Democrats and the No-Trumpers and care less. Now the Democrats will try again and waste the rest of their time unti they lose the House in November. 70 million votes coming for Trump.

        1. I did not vote for him because I don’t vote for anyone who demeans loving, caring Christians for being Christlike. For that matter, I don’t vote for anyone who demeans any loving, caring people of any religion.

          If to be our President means to represent the majority of our democracy at home and abroad, Donald J. Trump is not our President.

          Your President shows no fruits of Christianity: charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity (kindness), goodness, longanimity (forbearance), mildness (gentleness), faith, modesty, continency (self-control), and chastity.

          1. Vote how you will.
            President Trump is the current President and nothing the democrats have done/can do will change that:
            Deep State coup – exposed and failed
            Mueller Report exonerated Trump – no collusion , no obstruction.
            Impeachment – failed. No Abuse of Power – No Obstruction.
            Presidents are not pastors – wake up and enjoy the countyr the has revitalized while exposing the criminal Hillary and Obama.

            1. Bob, there never was a “deep state coup” in any form. These tactics, of your president, are no different than any fear tactic exercised by an autocratic, dictatorial political leader throughout the history of Man. Same tactic used by Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Putin. We are not being run over by illegal aliens, anymore than we are being attacked by home spun white supremacist terrorists.

            2. Bob, though partisan Donald J. Trump will forever be known as one of the three Presidents, by 2020, who WAS impeached. He will, also, go down as all three who were not removed from office.

              This country is being torn apart. That is the revitalization you feel. You believe every lie he tells you. Did you know that there were more new jobs during the last year of President Obama’s administration than in the last three years of Trump’s administration? Check it out.

            3. Bob, this is your “revitalized” country (… not to mention that Secretary Hillary was just absolved of all suggestions of criminality by Bill Barr’s partisan Department of Justice).


              When are the bills before the Senate going to be brought to the floor for debate? … one President Trump said he would sign immediately upon hitting his desk … prescription drugs!

              Read the Mueller Report, as I have including the latest releases, not just listen to Trump, and you will be unpleasantly surprised to find that Trump was not exonerated from either collusion or obstruction.

              Don’t you care to find out the truth for yourself, without the bias of FOX News (if you start there go no further than Chris Wallace).

              This is the spirit you dare to exemplify with the religious right’s rallying call, “LOCK HER UP!”.

              Matthew 27:22-24

              “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

              They all answered, “Crucify him!

              “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate. But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!

              When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd.

              “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!

              Following the lead of Trump, as your unquestioned high priest (Caiaphas), actually does crucify practicing children of God like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, the Bidens, and Mitt Romney who do not trespass against Matthew 7:12, 22:37-40. It is your responsibility!

              1. When you stop Lying about the conclusions of the Mueller Report and admit you are wrong we can proceed: It’s in the record as per below:

                “The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

                As far as obstruction, the Mueller report laid out facts on both sides but did not reach a conclusion. Barr’s letter said that “the Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.’”

                But Barr said that he and Rosenstein “have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel’s investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.”

                1. Read it Bob, for yourself!

                  The same Barr who exonerated Hillary Clinton from any criminality?

                  It is your responsibility! Your example of relationship with others cannot be separated from your political, economic and religious relationships. You can only serve one master! It is your responsibility! One Lord God!

    1. It’s not a resounding rebuke when you have power over a majority of a jury and are able to get them to vote to let you off.

      A resounding rebuke would be when a truly independent and integrous body unanimously voted to acquit someone.

      1. As that may be, Impeachment is a process that the framers put in place. The process was carried out; one side won and one side lost. The House knew in advance that they had no grounds for impeachment but pushed forward anyway.

        As the election is close you can see this exercise was not about impeachment but about politics. It was completely unnecessary.

  8. As an insightful Christian colleague from Indiana once warned this Canadian – “Trump will destroy the United States randomly; Pence will destroy the United States systematically”. No argument with that.

    1. … and telling others what to do with their body, when they would not allow others to tell them what to do with their own body … and … legally allowed to proselytize in public schools, while not allowing others to proselytize differently in public schools … and … stacking the courts biased in support of their freedoms while suppressing others’ freedoms of speech, religion, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is the spirit of their god, led by the perfect living example of their opponent of my God who teaches all his disciples to love neighbor, self and enemy. My God wills that I, as their child, carry my cross, willing to die for the good, right and love of my neighbor and my enemy. Their god counter punches to bury any and all who he deems disagreeable to his perfection. okay, thanks, I feel better for that.

        1. Oh, I could say it but it wouldn’t be true.

          Why can’t you say that you support the premature abortion of life when sending our healthy young adults to war to protect the body and right to choose life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that the body of our nation stands for?

            1. WHAT did you say???

              I no more choose to legislate what any woman chooses to do to protect her body than I do to legislate to send healthy, educated, potentially child bearing, young adults into combat to protect the body of the United States of America. I don’t tell others what to do with their body, equally as much as I would not have others tell me what to do with my body. I defend the right for all of mankind to choose life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, as I would have all others do the same for me and mine.

              Defenseless, adorably cute is the instinct of all species of animals necessary for the survival of their infants. This does not mean that those who chose, or did not choose, to bear children should be sacrificed that all infants might survive without them. It is not God’s will that all life survives just to populate the earth.

              Quality of love for all of God and Man is summed up with, in everything, do to all others first, as we all would have all others of God and Man do to us. If you would have others legislate that you cannot masterbate, have a wet dream, have a period, or that you must propagate according to other’s standards to produce defenseless, adorably cute infants, under the guise of more pro-life than others, then continue on with your legislative argument against choice for all potential mothers and fathers most often in counsel with proficient and empathetic doctors who understand the situation.

              Untried, untrained, inexperienced fetuses are not of greater value to our species than mothers and fathers we know. If you are cold enough to sacrifice the father of a pregnant mother’s fetus to war, just to protect your right to choose, then you could be cold enough to sacrifice a fetus to save the mother’s right to choose.

              1. I asked why you can’t say that you support abortion up to the day of birth, after you said that President Trump tells other what to do with their bodies. You said that you could, but it wouldn’t be true. I then said: you contradict yourself, because by limiting abortion you would be telling others what to do with their bodies.

                If you don’t support abortion up to the day of birth, then you would have a restriction on abortion and would be telling people what to do with their bodies just as you said of President Trump. You can’t have it both ways.

                1. darel, you are reading into what I actually said. Where did I say anything about legislatively “limiting abortion”?

                  I can say anything, it is well within my abilities to speak and write. I will not just say anything, especially that I “support abortion up to the day of birth”, because that would be a destructive lie. I do say that I support, my efforts are pro to, all life tempered by supporting the choice of those most responsible to how their body is used. I don’t support aborting any life prematurely, especially that of a mother or a soldier. I don’t support needlessly aborting fetuses, which includes actively supporting all pregnant women to get licensed medical and psychological counseling before, during and after pregnancy.

                  I don’t tell other people what to do except when it is people who are irresponsibly telling or legislating others, not of their responsibility, what to do. I accept legislation to stop and/or penalize offenders who take the lives, freedoms, and opportunities to pursue constructive happiness of others, who are not threatening their areas (ownership) of life’s responsibility.

                  Any legislation “limiting abortion” or “forcing increased propagation of our species” to any degree is not the purview of the state. The responsibility to abort, or not, is, and can only be, owned by the mother (1st), the licensed (qualified by the state) doctor (2nd) and the father (3rd and last). All others of their concerned community can support but not usurp their responsibility. Legislation would penalize, to effectively removing any opportunity to ever practice again, a doctor who aborted the fetus to save the mother. Legislation would publicize and penalize an offending mother beyond the loss of her child, possibly with incarceration.

                  I don’t want it both ways! I want it one way; loving, empathetic, respectful and supportive for all of Man and God. I don’t tell people what to do with their bodies as do the misnomered “Right to Lifers”. We have an example of misnomered right to lifers in the Roman Catholic church when they decreed all birth control not godly, in favor of the known ineffective rhythm method. That served the church, and its coffers, well, by populating the church, but not the quality of the church because all that was accomplished was increasing the poor herd (flock) in service to the management who were religiously not allowed to propagate the church themselves.

                  Go for it, but, please, don’t read into what I am saying in reply to you.

                  1. You could call it reading into what you said or you could call it deducing a conclusion from what you have said. If, as you say, you don’t support wholesale abortion, then you by definition you would limit a women’s right to control her own body, as you put it, at some point. That would be a contradiction on your part. You don’t get to say you have no say in the matter when you vote for candidates who either allow wholesale abortion, or who would restrict abortion, which by definition put limits on what a woman can do with her own body, as you put it and which you oppose. You can’t have it both ways.

                    You won’t vote for President Trump, so that leaves you with Democrats who want and support abortion up to the day of birth. Herm, you can’t bamboozle me with doubletalk.

                    1. Legislate, Legislate, Legislate …!!! … that is not a solution to solve unhealthy abortion … we’ve had it and clothes hangers became associated with abortion, really.

                      Oh, bullshit, most Democrats do not want and support abortion up to the day of birth. That is only one of Trump’s many lies mis-characterizing his opponents. Lying is the number one reason I cannot vote for him, that and the fact that he could actually care less about any fetus, child and/or mother.

                      There is no room left to further bamboozle a Trump supporter.

                    2. Then you are ignorant of their positions. Every Democrat running for President opposes any restrictions to abortion. Bernie Sanders, for example:

                      “Guarantee health care through Medicare for All, repeal the Hyde Amendment and fully fund Planned Parenthood, Title X, and other initiatives that protect women’s health, access to contraception, and the availability of a safe and legal abortion.”

                      Oppose all efforts to undermine or overturn Roe v. Wade, and appoint federal judges who will uphold women’s most fundamental rights.”

                      Furthermore, they all support New York’s abortion law that allows for abortion up to the day of birth. Democrat lawmakers shouted with joy when that barbaric law was passed.

                    3. Roe v. Wade is a restriction to abortion!!! I told you that I am okay with Roe v. Wade. I oppose your spirit of judgment that, if allowed, would remove all choice from a woman, relative to child birth. As a male, I would suggest that you allow the majority of women, only, to choose what is legislated regarding their choice. I can guarantee that a women’s maternal instinct is much more correct in what is right or wrong relative to children, pre- or post- womb.

                      As far as respecting what should be a given for women’s rights, I agree with the following as better than what the Republican’s offer for the physical health of our entire nation. Going before the Supreme Court now is a challenge to any health care, other than from profit motive insurance companies, for the entire nation, sponsored by the partisan Department of Justice. Planned Parenthood has already been federally defunded.

                      Where is your conscience now?


                      Fight for Women’s Rights

                      When we are in the White House, we are going to protect a woman’s right to control her own body. That is her decision, not the government’s.

                      Bernie Signature

                      Key Points

                      Adopt Equal Pay for Equal Work through the Paycheck Fairness Act.

                      Guarantee health care through Medicare for All, repeal the Hyde Amendment and fully fund Planned Parenthood, Title X, and other initiatives that protect women’s health, access to contraception, and the availability of a safe and legal abortion.

                      Oppose all efforts to undermine or overturn Roe v. Wade, and appoint federal judges who will uphold women’s most fundamental rights.

                      Fight to end sexual harassment, discrimination, and violence in workplaces, the military, and other institutions.


                      Despite major advances in civil and political rights, our country still has a long way to go in addressing the issues of gender inequality and reproductive freedom. Right now, extreme forces on the right are launching political attacks and passing draconian laws at both the state and national level with the goal of ending a woman’s right to choose. We must fight back together, and defend a woman’s right to control her own body and economic future. When we are in the White House, we will:

                      Adopt Equal Pay for Equal Work through the Paycheck Fairness Act.

                      Fully fund Planned Parenthood, Title X, and other initiatives that protect women’s health, access to contraception, and the availability of a safe and legal abortion.

                      Expand the WIC program for pregnant mothers, infants, and children.

                      Oppose all efforts to undermine or overturn Roe v. Wade, and appoint federal judges who will uphold women’s most fundamental rights.

                      Immediately reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act.
                      Pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

                      Fight to end sexual harassment in workplaces, the military, and other institutions.

                      Protect women from harassment, discrimination, and violence in educational institutions by protecting and enforcing Title IX.

          1. Their conscience condemns them, so they have to make it sound as harmless as possible. It’s an effort to deceive others to support abortion.

            1. Yes. Isn’t it interesting that progressives throw a fit because they believe children might have to spend some time separated from thier escorts while they support severing the spine of a baby in the womb so they pull out the head and sell it for parts like an auto junkyard.

              1. That is pure pseudo, self-flattering, “look at loving me” bullshit! Real life is a whole lot more complex than the destructive fantasy you project on others. I am pro, in all ways, constructive and productive quality of life for all of mankind, as a whole, a more perfect union. I refuse to remain silent while you potentially sacrifice the whole of mankind purely to support the expanded quantity of life.

                1. No you are not. You support baby killing and have said it many, many times on this blog. Why do you fool yourself. “Worldwide, there have been more than 1.3 billion abortions since 1980” Can you try to grasp that number before you close you mind and write something else to justify abortion?

                  1. You truly are deluded and self absorbed. Do you support war? Do you support needless suffering and death of mothers? How many lives are lost to masturbation, wet dreams, periods, and vasectomies? Do you choose to call that baby killing, also?

                    I mourn the loss of all life! I do not support “baby killing”! I do not support anything that removes the opportunity for another to have unfettered life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! I do not support war! I do not support those who would deny women the right to choose what they do with their body! I do not support those who would deny men the right to do with their body! I do not support those who would deny mutually consenting adults whatever intimacy they are drawn to together.

                    You say, “Worldwide, there have been more than 1.3 billion abortions since 1980”.

                    I have one question, since 1980, including all the wars due to over crowding and less food as a result of climate change, has the population of the world increased, or decreased?

                    If you can justify war, the premature sacrifice of healthy adult children, then I can justify abortion of fetuses. I mourn the loss of each and all I know, including those who died, who I knew in my lifetime, of coat hanger abortions.

                    No, I can no more grasp 1.3 billion, whether of people, planets, or grains of sand, than you can. Don’t try to claim you can, you’ve lied enough already.

                    1. I have one question, since 1980, including all the wars due to over crowding and less food as a result of climate change, has the population of the world increased, or decreased?

            2. I do not support legislated abortion! I support educated choice!

              You would legislate to penalize a mother for her responsible choice as to how her body is used. I would never legislate abortion or anti-abortion. I do actively support all life that is constructive and productive to mankind.

              I am truly empathetically and influentially pro-life and pro-choice for all of mankind. I’ve actually had a father-to-be die in my arms in Vietnam. Don’t talk to me about my conscience. You don’t know shit about what I feel or what a mother feels who is considering an abortion. You just want to feel good about yourself, no matter how pitifully ignorant or powerless you might be.

              You and Bob are dictatorially sticking your nose in where you have no business being. It is not yours to determine who, of others’, surely lives and dies. If it is, it is time to put down your sword of war to pick up your own cross of love ,that others might live by your life’s sacrifice in their place of doom.

              By your speaking out judgmentally, seeking anti-abortion legislation, with a clear lack of empathy for all in the picture of life, available as you can possibly bear to perceive, you needlessly harm, sometimes to death, innocent others just to feed your own self-centered, “feel good” cause.

              1. You say you don’t support legislated abortion. Well, it is already legislated, so, would you support overturning abortion laws that already allow wholesale abortion? If you are legally able to vote, and do, you will vote for Democrats who not only support abortion, but oppose any, and all efforts to stop abortion. Why is that not supporting legislated abortion?

                You say you support educated choice. You would not have a choice on abortion if abortion was not already allowed by legislation. One does not need an education to oppose the killing of their unborn. God gave every man a conscience about right and wrong, so that they would have not a defense when they stand before Him in judgement.

                1. God gave every man a conscience about right and wrong, so that they would have not a defense when they stand before Him in judgement.

                  There you go, that threat originated with the Roman Catholic Church, not before. Mankind propagates by instinct so that its species would survive the perpetual death of its members. According to the Bible viewed in the reality of 25 million years of mankind, God by grace gave (made in), somewhere within the spectrum of Man’s existence, the animal species of mankind a relational image of God. The Messiah taught very clearly that Man is physically temporal, and God is eternally spirit. To be a child of God, sibling of the Messiah, requires being born again in the Spirit of God. God does not propagate to survive. God does have the influence to abort life prematurely, which was and is employed on the cross (metaphorically) for all the Father’s children.

                  I don’t support legislated abortion, though Roe v. Wade would be satisfactory to me to impress and make available community support for all women considering any form of abortion, or sexual health. I wholly support community support, without religious bias, for all families considering pregnancy; before, during and after, whenever pregnancy comes to their attention. That is where and when educated choice is most effective, not from any legislation. Today, states have neutered Roe v. Wade in favor of even more religious bias, and within each there is very little to no unbiased, medically/psychologically sound, services available for the health of women, fathers and their fetus.

                  It intrigues me, and it is telling, that you would say “ God gave every man a conscience”. Why didn’t, in your view, God give every “woman” a conscience? Oh, another way to have said it inclusively, is God gave all of Man a conscience. You see, it offends me empathetically, to hear others make any woman a second-class citizen, or worse, of no higher status than a heifer, a bitch, a mare, or any animal stature considered less than equally and sexually monomorphic.

                  1. No, you are wrong, it’s from Romans, chapter 1. I’m not a Catholic but if you say they believe in a conscience, then they got one right.

                    1. Where is it from?

                      I offer this for your edification:

                      Romans 2:1-16 (NIV2011)

                      You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

                      Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

                      But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

                      God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

                      To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

                      For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

                      Matthew 7:12 (NIV2011)

                      So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

                      Matthew 22:37-40 (NIV2011)

                      Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

                      Where does the Bible refer to God’s admonition regarding “to oppose the killing of their unborn?

                    2. Herm, anybody can copy and paste Scripture. I’ve noticed that you do it to excess and out of context. For example:

                      “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”

                      I’m not the one supporting abortion. I speak out against abortion, the killing of the unborn. I’m not the one calling abortion pro choice when what he really means is that he is pro abortion. That’s you Herm. I’m not the one who says that a woman has a right to do what she wants with her body when what he really means to say is that a woman has a right to kill her unborn. That’s you Herm. I’m not the one who votes for Democrats who vow to appoint only judges who support the killing of the unborn. That’s you Herm. The Democrat candidates just did that in their last debate.

                      You come across as a sanctimonious fraud. Somebody needs to tell you that. Furthermore, nobody is reading those long, and rambling, and often incoherent rants of yours.

                    3. darel, you truly are self absorbed. It is not true that anybody can copy and paste Scripture. I only do so, for you, because you didn’t read the scripture that you so inappropriately quote to support your implicated threat that God will send all those to hell for “killing of the unborn”. He will not!!!

                      It must be such a fulfilling cause to speak out for those who cannot speak for themselves, those who have not complained , and most loudly for all those (some of your crying members claim in the billions plus) who will never speak.

                      You, and yours (Bob), don’t support those born, fed, sheltered, educated, and, all too many dead, children who did speak because they were not nearly as respected. What do you do for the mothers and the soldiers? Are you pro war?

                      What are you doing for the homeless, malnourished women whose children will suffer? What are you doing for the misuse of drugs that, through childbirth, children will suffer the whims of their parents?

                      Are you pro suffering and death for some but not for all like you, yours and the unborn? I am not pro suffering and death for anyone, including you, yours and the unborn. I mourn the one miscarriage my wife and I suffered 42 years ago. I mourn for more brothers than you can possibly comprehend the pain of, that I lost in Vietnam 54 years ago.

                      You don’t impress me, but you do threatened all the potential mothers with false godly claims, and with further legislation, that only confuses more the reality that they have to choose from, by eliminating honest and caring medical and social services just to salve your religious good feelings because you don’t wish to mourn any longer.

                      Are you pro war? I’m not pro abortion!

                    4. Killing babies in the womb is voluntary and done with complete knowledge of the outcome. So if baby killing is proscribed (and it is) those who do it are guilty: women and thier doctors – especially Planned Parenthood.

                      Conflating war and baby killing and the homeless is absurd and you know it. God said thou shalt not kill. God said the poor will always be with us. War, wars and rumors of wars were prophesied long ago.

                      Why is it ok for women to decide to have an abortion? Where is that stated by God? How do they get a pass from the commandment not to kill?

                    5. Oh, Bob, you stuck your foot in your mouth, again. You won’t even try to understand, from your lynch mob/riot fever mentality, but …

                      You wrote,
                      Why is it ok for women to decide to have an abortion? Where is that stated by God? How do they get a pass from the commandment not to kill?

                      Why is it okay for you to decide women can’t have an abortion? It is not stated by God, nor is it stated by God in the Bible that they can’t choose to do with their children what they want.

                      After all, it is written that God clearly felt Abraham had a perfect right and authority to choose to kill Issac. If a father has the perfect right to choose life or death for his child, what right does a mother have? The Father chose to allow, no twelve legions of angels intervening, the premature killing of his Son.

                    6. It is ok for me to point out that abortion is a sin because it is. It is not ok for you to tell women it is there body like a Leftist lemming.

                      As to Abraham having a right to kill Issac – let me stop laughing before I respond.

                    7. It is only a sin if, in everything, you do not do to others as you would have others do to you

                      … and like that …

                      you don’t love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and like that, love your neighbor as yourself.

                      If you cannot understand the Decalogue within that standard you do not understand transgressing against the Law and the Prophets.

                      It changes nothing for you to say differently You don’t have the authority of Jesus Christ to judge differently.

                      Give it a rest, your replies are becoming more, and more, incorrectly spelled and offering less, and less, sense.

                      God didn’t make it clear in Genesis 22 that it was Abraham’s responsibility of choice to kill, or not, Issac? How do you interpret Genesis 22?

                    8. That is not the complete standard for determining sin. The ten commandments are the basis are they not? Mispelled or not apparently you are reading them.

                      Genesis 22 is something you cannot understand because you believe you are hot-wired into the Spirit of God that lets you determine what is sin and what is not.

                      Genesis 22 was a test of Abraham’s faith to see if he would listen to God’s voice. Where does it say anything differently?

                    9. Do you know what the Decalogue is?

                      If you cannot understand the Decalogue within that standard you do not understand transgressing against the Law and the Prophets.

                      Where does Genesis 22 say any different than what I shared with you?

                      Where does it say, anywhere in the Bible, that life and death, according to God’s law, of a parent’s child is anyone other than the parent’s choice and responsibility?

                      By the Father’s example, even God will choose to give up the life of his children for the love of mankind!

                    10. Here – “After all, it is written that God clearly felt Abraham had a perfect right and authority to choose to kill Issac.” Perfectly incorrect.
                      The sixth commandment for starters.

                    11. By the Father’s example, even God will choose to give up the life of his children for the love of mankind!

                      What do you believe the metaphor, of carrying “their own cross” signifies relative to the Father’s will?

                      Galatians 1:3-5 (NIV2011)

                      Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

                      When you have the power, like with twelve legions of angels, to stop the killing of your children, and you don’t, does that make you complicit?

                      Joshua 6:20-21 (NIV2011)

                      When the trumpets sounded, the army shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the men gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so everyone charged straight in, and they took the city.

                      They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

                      This by God’s example and his command, the Lord I love with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my strength, with all my mind, decreed that every living thing in Jericho be killed by the sword?

                      Again, for students of Christ, only by the measure of Mathew 7:12 and 22:37-40 can all the Law (1st 5 books of the Old Testament Scripture) and the Prophets (the remainder of the Old Testament Scripture) be known as according to the will of God.

                      Bob, I don’t believe you are comprehending anything I am sharing with you. I do believe you are incapable of bearing to know the truth today. Maybe, with a little rest and rereading what you missed, it might help you find the truth, led not by me but solely by the Spirit of truth available to you.

                    12. Herm, like all liberals, will always try red herrings in an effort to change the subject, when exposed and cornered.

                      Now watch him try to make himself out as the Godly one and you the lost one. The religious liberals are the most worst at that.

                    13. Herm, I would never try to best you at being the more righteous Pharisee. I don’t read your long, disjointed, often incoherent rants, so I missed your credentials. Did you include tithing in your boasting?

                    14. It is apparent that Herm is not coherent and I can’t continue with his thread. When he said that fathers have the right to kill thier children based on Abraham it was a bit too far to be debatable.

                    15. He used to be on Patheos. I noted then how weird and incoherent he was, and discerned that he was not a Christian. I don’t know if he even claims to be a Christian. Many come on these sites to attack Christianity, and the word of God in subtle ways. It’s the old “yea hath God said?”

                    16. Click and Clack, what makes a Christian? Can one actually be a Christian (Christ like) if they don’t know the Word in them to abide in his authority? By whose authority do you condemn others by usurping the name of God, surely not Jesus Christ’s authority. … by whose???

                      Neither of you use Scripture as your witness to the testimony of Christ. Both of you testify that you worship your Bible as the most sacred word of God. Both of you make fun of those, and there are more than you know, who are children of God on earth, siblings of Jesus Son of God.

                      Which would you considered to be better for you; to be a card carrying Christian or a Spirit bearing disciple of only the Messiah, Christ? … oh, if he were alive, of course.

                      Is the Christian church alive to you and Jesus Christ dead to you? Which form of Christianity are you a member of and hold allegiance to?

                      Get this straight, I don’t attack Christianity any more than the Son of Man attacked Judaism.

                      I claim to be no more than a young child born of God, learning from, a disciple of, my one Instructor Jesus; A.K.A.: the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of Man, the Son of God, Brother.

                      Jesus Christ was sentenced to be crucified to death by Caiaphas, as a blasphemer for refusing to deny that he is a child of God.

                      You don’t know your Bible and you don’t know Jesus. You know of Jesus only with what your church officials and traditions has selectively pointed out in the Bible. Our greatest salvation from Jesus’ dying on the cross was then, and only then (1,985 years ago), did the Advocate come to teach each and everyone of mankind the truth of Man and God. Instead you and your traditional religious types keep going back to the human priests, not much unlike Caiaphas and Annas, who enforce Institutional Theology rather than point you, and yours, to an eternal relationship with and in the Spirit of truth, as your only one Teacher.


                      Now it is time for you to say I am worthy of death, to spit in my face and strike me with your holier than thou “christian” fists. Encouraging others to slap me while saying, “Prophesy to us, child of God. Who hit you?” Matthew 26:66-68.

                      … too weird and incoherent for you? … like the Bible, that you do not open to read for yourself, and a living Spirit of truth, who you do not see to accept?

                    17. Joshua 10:30 (NIV2011)

                      The LORD also gave that city and its king into Israel’s hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho.

                      What were you debating relative to the 6th commandment, written in the Decalogue, in what you worship as the innerant word of God?

                      This is just one of many cities that no survivors were left, with the full support of the Lord God. The dead, put to the sword by God’s chosen, were, young, old, male, female (including those mothers pregnant from conception to full term).

                      You can’t continue with this thread only because there is no way to use the Bible as a weapon to justify your misogynous breeder mentality.

                      You’re probably unable to understand this, also, so this too will be assign to my just being once again incoherent. How far down must I speak to you before you can comprehend the fallacies of your ways?

                    18. darel, humility begins with honestly considering that you may be the lost one. If I am ignorant of something, I don’t know what I don’t know of that something. I am constantly researching and testing to see what I don’t see, to know what and who I don’t know. I am prepared to do so forever.

                      I am not ignorant of my relationship with and in the Spirit of truth, but you are ignorant of even the possibility that I am sharing with you the truth, because you don’t see, to know, to accept the Holy Spirit in your midst. You only see with carnal eyes which are blind to spirit (which God is) reality. You won’t even accept my invitation for you to read that which is written to be so in your Bible. The truth is not a red herring.

                      The dynamic Word of God is in me and I am in him. I wish the same equally for you. The hardness of your heart and mind of spirit (in the image of God) is all that is keeping you from the joy and peace found with and in God as their child.

                      I know, to you I am incoherent. Your loss, not mine. Strange thing is, without your theologians leading you, the Bible would be incoherent to you. With the Advocate’s guiding the Bible testimony in total becomes clear as each student can bear.

                    19. Herm, it is not humility that causes you to reject the bible. It is not understanding that allows you to believe the “spirit of truth” speaks to you.Rather, it is an evil demon that has possessed you and gets you to spew out ungodly ideas. You need an exorcism!

                    20. Bob, I really can’t elevate you to the educated and authoritative status of Caiaphas, only to his blind followers who in effect, yelled, “Exorcise him from our lives!”. You truly do not know God, yet you say you speak for God, no further than you’ve been taught to believe in the Bible. You make judgments, as though you’re aware of my Father’s will, without accepting the word of God I’m boldly speaking to you.

                      Can’t you understand that you maybe wrong, that you may be blind, that the Spirit of truth actually exists, and that he really does live with and in children of God on earth, as it is written, as it is promised by the living and fully authoritative Lord Jesus, just as it was with Christ’s first flock filled with the Holy Spirit, boldly speaking the word of God?

                    21. Here is some really good Good news.
                      18 we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen [are] temporary, but the things not seen [are] age-during.
                      2 Corinthians 4.18
                      Young’s Literal Translation
                      THIS! Took a big weight off me today.😀

                    22. I could see that!

                      I can’t live by what my eyes see, only by he the world can’t see, to know, to accept, can I be led to live in the truth, just as much as I grow in spirit to bear. I see and hear him clearly now with my heart and mind of spirit, the image of God.


                    23. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      You condemned yourself Herm. No matter how much you copy and paste Scripture, the word of God, it won’t warrant claiming to be a Christian. Do you even claim to be a Christian?

                    24. … then share with me how, and by whose authority, you know the Bible is the word of God? Do you know that it is inerrant?

                      Quit sentencing me to your hell and help me out here, like in love your enemy.

                      No, after having once been a trained, ordained and a ministering Christian church authority in good standing, I can no longer, rest on the credentials that any carnal church would stand behind as their study of God. I am commissioned to teach you the commands of my Lord, that he might fill you with the Spirit of truth for eternity. John 4:21-24; the time came 1,985 years ago and will remain forever.

                    25. There you go again telling me how sanctimonious you are. You are such a fraud. I exposed you as pro abortion. You resent it, so you strike out.

                      Herm, we all suffer, we all have lost loved ones, we all endure hardships. I spent 14 months in Nam. I had a brother in the 101st in Nam, another in the 11th Arm calvary in Nam.

                      You can run from your pro abortion position by feigning piety, but God gives every man a conscience, so you will never shed your guilt unless you repent.

                      There is no doubt in my mind that you are against all war, that you are pro abortion, that you reject God’s word on the sin and the judgment of those who practice Homosexuality. And you vote Democrat because you are liberal.

                      Bernie Sanders would be your ideal candidate because he too thinks like you and he will make abortion free if he gets his way. Atheist, Socialist, Bernie Sanders will not be President of the United States.

                    26. SANCTIMONIOUS??? (“making a show of being morally superior to other people”) … when you claim “God gives every man a conscience, so you will never shed your guilt unless you repent” as a clear “sanctimonious” threat without reference?

                      You don’t abide in Scripture because you defy what is written in John 4:23,24, 14:15-21, 15:26,27,16:12-15, and Acts 4:31. The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear. If you want all truth, as you can bear, then you must be born again in the Spirit as your one guide, then, and only then, can you unsanctimoniously speak the word of God, apropos to today, boldly.

                      All the Law and the Prophets (all God’s support for the Old Testament Scripture) is summed up, in everything, do to others as you would have others do to you. Apply that admonition from the Messiah to your judgment regarding mutually agreed to intimacy between adults of mankind, in any social, physical or spiritual form, that in no other way affect you and yours. Your judgment is sanctimonious sans any awareness of the living word of God.

                      I am not pro abortion! I am pro healthcare, education and the most equal opportunity for all in my nation possible, of which I am responsible to through my speech and vote, to avail themselves of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

                      That isn’t going to happen in our present corporatocracy that hasn’t a healthy balance of regulated capitalism and regulated socialism to benefit the majority of our nation’s members equally. The political candidate you seem to support would take this nation even further away from a Democratic Republic into a clear autocracy like (only he, of no transparency, demeaning and cleaning house of all opponents, can lead) Nazi Germany (some capitalism/socialism), Communist Russia (some capitalism/socialism), Communist North Korea (no capitalism), and Communist China (some capitalism/socialism), all without a healthy balance of capitalism and socialism. Jesus Christ is a socialist who is pro a divinely governing benevolent dictatorship regulated by the perfect will of the Father. Children, which compared to God mankind is, playing at governing themselves very rarely have a benevolent dictator available to govern them equitably. The framers of the United States of America’s Constitution presented us the best chance to build a more perfect union, with no mention of capitalism being the predominate influence for our nation’s representation.

                      Oh, by the way, Bernie is not an atheist, though there would be nothing wrong with it if he were, he is Jewish. His form of socialism in no way threatens our Democracy, Republic or Constitution. His form of socialism threatens our insufficiently regulated influence of capitalism that makes us the United States of America effectively a corporatocracy.

                      Capitalism is conceptually the hoarding otherwise available resources and products for the profit of a few of mankind.

                      Capital: wealth in the form of money or other assets owned by a person or organization or available or contributed for a particular purpose such as starting a company or investing.

                      Socialism is conceptually sharing all available resources and products for the good of all organized mankind.

                      Social: relating to society or its organization.

                      We know if either goes unregulated individuals will abuse each concept to eventually become managed/governed by an autocrat (only (s)he can rule right for the good of all [the most divine sanctimonious Father figure]).

                      Watch, he will make, all those willing and trusting to be governed solely by a father figure, fear any regulation of capitalism and no regulation of socialism! He will manipulate and intimidate with fear the uncomfortable, irresponsible, and uneducated voter to accept only him. You have been warned!

                    27. Wow! What blasphemy!!! You actually said:

                      “The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.”

                      You are the first liberal I have ever got to so boldly state that blasphemy. Most liberals just find fault with the Bible. You leave no doubt that you are not a believer, a Christian.

                    28. Wow, you deny who the Word is:

                      John 1:1 (NIV2011)

                      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

                      You deny him as your one Instructor:

                      Matthew 23:8-12 (NIV2011)

                      “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

                      Because of your denials you cannot be his student (disciple):

                      Luke 14:25-27 (NIV2011)

                      Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

                      But, thank you, you place me in with the most divine company:

                      Matthew 26:63-68 (NIV2011)

                      But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

                      “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

                      Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

                      What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered.

                      Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?”

                      Thank you, again, but pray tell, by whose theory-ology (the study of God by those who do not know God) do you make your judgment?

                      Sorry if this is too much Scripture cut and pasted, but in love for you I thought it would be nice to make the effort to share what you clearly have not read. Not only do I suggest you read, and refute if you can, the offerings I make here for your edification, I humbly suggest that you go back and read what I said before that you deny written in Scripture. Don’t take my word for it, take the Word’s word!

                      Love you!

                    29. Herm, the jig is up. You said “the Bible isn’t the word of God.” You have called God a liar. You are clearly a blasphemer. The Bible is a closed book to you. You are spiritually blind. You can call yourself a Christian but nobody will believe you, and no Christians church would have you as a member.

                    30. Tell me, who taught you who the word is?

                      The rest of your rant are pure lies founded on nothing I said, or on Scripture (the open Bible), only the judgment of Caiaphas.

                      As to your previous reply: “Herm, I would never try to best you at being the more righteous Pharisee. I don’t read your long, disjointed, often incoherent rants, so I missed your credentials. Did you include tithing in your boasting?

                      Do you find the Bible, that you say is “closed to me”, “long and disjointed”, also?

                      And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

                      John 14:16-17

                      Have you noticed that you haven’t once offered any Scripture to refute the Scripture I drew, as written, directly from my open Bible, to share with you?

                      “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

                      John 16:12-13

                      Eternity is a long time not to read, listen or hear the Spirit of truth?

                      Where did you find that I called God, the God you do not know living with and in you, as I do, a liar? … and what was it that I said they lied about?

                      There are at least three fingers, on the hand of the finger you point at me, that point back at you.

                      If the “jig is up” then offer real Scripture or, at best, speak boldly the true and living word of God as evidence to support your accusations.

                    31. You have blasphemed God by denying that the Bible is the word of God. You are a lost man. You need to be told that. This explains why you ramble and are often incoherent. I don’t read your rants and neither does anybody else. You need to be told that also. I almost always can find something to refute you with within your first sentence or two, or maybe your first paragraph. The word Vietnam did catch my eye in one of your long ramblings and I did comment on that.

                      You are wasting time and energy with me, because I will respond to you with nothing but your words about denying that the Bible is the word of God.

                    32. darel, you wrote, “I almost always can find something to refute you with within your first sentence or two, or maybe your first paragraph.

                      … in reply to my summation:

                      If the “jig is up” then offer real Scripture or, at best, speak boldly the true and living word of God as evidence to support your accusations.

                      Where’s the “real Scripture”?

                      Where is it written, in your Bible, that your Bible is the word of God? Do you refute the Bible with its own words, too? Who baptized you to be my judge? … those are but a few questions you leave wide open, but, so far, your Bible is not wide open, only mine.

                    33. darel, you wrote, “I almost always can find something to refute you with within your first sentence or two, or maybe your first paragraph.

                      … in reply to my summation:

                      If the “jig is up” then offer real Scripture or, at best, speak boldly the true and living word of God as evidence to support your accusations.

                      Where’s the “real Scripture”?

                      Where is it written, in your Bible, that your Bible is the word of God? Do you refute the Bible with its own words, too? Who baptized you to be my judge? … those are but a few questions you leave wide open, but, so far, your Bible is not wide open, only mine.

                    34. darel, in the Spirit reaching out to you, this response just came to me relative to your summation:

                      You are wasting time and energy with me, because I will respond to you with nothing but your words about denying that the Bible is the word of God.

                      Is the real, live God wasting his time and energy with you, because you will respond to him with nothing but his words about denying that the Bible is the word of God? Interesting, thanks Lord!

                    35. ?
                      Are you now adding another blasphemy by claiming to be God? Wasn’t saying the Bible isn’t the word of God a bad enough blasphemy on your part?

                      You wrote a short reply and yet you still can’t be coherent.

                    36. You said, “the Bible isn’t the word of God.”

                      Although all liberals attack the Bible, the word of God, in some manner, you are the first, and only liberal I have encountered that denies that the Bible is the word of God.

                      Can you name a known religious liberal who agrees with you?

                    37. darel, please read the following, please!

                      1 John 2:14 (NIV2011)

                      I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

                      John 14:19-20 (NIV2011)

                      Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

                      Revelation 19:13 (NIV2011)

                      He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

                      Does the word of God live in you? Do you know the Father? Why not?

                    38. 1 Corinthians 2:13 (NIV2011)

                      This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

                      Are the words you are speaking taught by the Spirit (of truth) or the church calling them selves Christian? Is the Spirit real and available to you, or are you in waiting?

                    39. What determines what scripture is? When 2 Timothy 3:16 was written there was only one canon of scriptures, and it did not contain 2 Timothy 3:16. This is Scripture inspired by God.

                      Pauls epistles, recognized in 2 Peter 3:16, were clearly inspired by his relationship with God, and some became New Testament Scripture in testimony to his relationship of God’s child with and in the Spirit. There is a good legitimate admonition that should make you and darel wary, “His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” I could hear you both saying, his epistles are too long and incoherent for you to research and study.

                      Heaven and earth will pass away, completely, they are carnal. Jesus, the Word of God, will be heard fresh every moment for eternity for those born of God, fill with the Spirit of truth. Luke 21:33

                      The Word of God is truly alive, well and active for all those you have seen, to know, to accept the Spirit of truth (Hebrews 4:12), but you wouldn’t know that.

                      He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
                      Revelation 19:13 (NIV2011)

                      Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
                      John 14:19 (NIV2011)

                      You do not see him, the Word of God.

                    40. Which one of those cults or cult leaders do you associate with? Is it some black Muslim cult?

                      Whoever they are, they are no more Christian than yourself.

                      The Bible, the word of God, is the only authority of truth for Christians. You deny that the Bible is the word of God, so you are left with seeking truth from some other source apart from God.

                    41. darel, you offer no Bible reference to your claims, none. Christians used to be known, but not endeared as “Bible thumpers”. You didn’t read all those “cult leaders” Bible references to even risk realizing that you’ve been misled by religion away from a relation with God the Father, God Jesus Christ, and your greatest loss, God the Holy Spirit. Enough of that.

                      By your definition, Jesus Christ in me, and I in him, along with both of us, and the heavenly Father, the Spirit of truth living with and in us (as read directly from the Bible), is a cult.

                      It is not the spirit of Christ you honor by demeaning another religion, who most within know better their Koran.

                      By what and whose authority do you believe that your religion’s Bible is the word of God? Proof?!?!

                    42. Tell us what your little voice has to say about the scriptures below?

                      2 Timothy 3:16
                      2 Peter 3:16
                      Luke 21:33
                      Hebrews 4:12

                      These are much better than a subscription to Newsweek.

                    43. … and have nothing to do with who or what the Word of God is to God, as I replied earlier to in depth. You are blind and deaf to the living word of God, so you demean those who aren’t.

                    44. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                      Will you ever list the names of those religious leaders (note that I didn’t say Christians) who agree with you about the Bible, the Scriptures, not being the word of God?

                    45. darel, it seems impossible to reach your hardened heart and mind, made in God’s image, spirit.

                      I offered you a refined list, not to confuse you with too much, of Internet articles where “religious” leaders explained why the Bible and all its testimonial Scripture is not the word of God.

                      There is one world renowned high priest, who I agree wholly with and he with me, who I have shared with you. Unfortunately, you’re looking for many theologians (those who do not know God or they would not have to waste their mortal opportunity studying God), who support to justify your blind conscience.

                      How many children of Man have to study their mother and father to know if their protecting, nurturing and providing family exists and love their children? Infants learn from relationship, solely. If you truly wish to be a child of God, representing God, relationship is the only way you will ever know, first hand, the living Word of God for yourself.

                    46. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      So, you cite Scripture but claim it is not the word of God.

                      You refuse to give the names of religious (false teachers) who agree with you. Man up Herm.

                    47. darel, you idolize the carnal Bible as the word of God, but you won’t believe was is clearly written, nor cite where it is claimed to be the word of God in the Bible.

                      Instead, you look to other carnal religious leaders to confirm that they are false teachers because they know better than your chosen carnal teachers.

                      I presented you with and example of “religious” leaders’ writings found out on the net. You could find many more, including declared atheists, if you google “the Bible is not the word of God.

                      I have only one teacher who know God personally with impeccable credentials. I pointed to where Jesus, the confessed Messiah, is quoted to be telling all his disciples (which means pupil/student) of our one Father , one Teacher, and one Instructor, the Messiah. He concludes with the greatest among you will be your servant.

                      You shine on any Bible study that does not agree with your carnal teachers. You shine on the Spirit of truth as not solely qualified to lead you in the wilderness and guide you into all truth forever, on earth and in heaven.

                      The spirit of Satan has hardened your heart and mind to where God is dead to you, while you wait for his return. I hurts to see a brother of Man dying with no hope to become a brother of God.

                    48. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      Still no names of those religious leaders that you say agree with your blasphemy. False teachers seldom so easily make themselves known as false teachers such as you have done.

                    49. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      Your own words show that it is you who serve Satan.

                      Give me the names of those religious leaders who gave you that blasphemy that blasphemy of yours.

                    50. Let’s make a deal, okay? You give me the name(s) of the religious leader(s) who give you this blasphemy and I’ll give you mine.

                    51. Again, you are not coherent. You said that the Bible isn’t the word of God. That is your blasphemy.
                      Try making sense

                    52. No, darel, it is your hardened heart and mind that is not logical and consistent. By whose authority, religious leader (?), do you judge me?

                    53. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      You have condemned yourself. Your blasphemy shouts that you are not a Christian, but a lost man instead. You refuse to name the religious leaders that agree with you. You evidently made it up.

                      There for all to see is your blasphemy, your condemnation.

                    54. So??? Your authority for judging me to hell is your alone, are you Satan or God? … otherwise your words are impotent.

                    55. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      You judged yourself with your blasphemy. I had no part in it.

                    56. Your own words judge you, I have nothing to do with it. You have called God a liar and you have openly and clearly stated that the Bible isn’t the word of God:

                      Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.

                    57. darel, that is not even close to being rational. I must believe, even if based solely on the Bible that you worship as the word of God, that you are Satan. This would mean that there is no hope for you, as it is written.

                      Now, if you are not, and simply an obsessed minion of mankind’s traditional religiosity , ravaged by doubt, this is your last reference from me and the only Authority of all truth forever:


                    58. Herm darel • 3 days ago • edited
                      The Bible isn’t the word of God, it is a testimony of mankind’s relationship with God as each author could bear.
                      Your words are your record. No Christian church would have you as a member. You refuse to give names of religious leaders (religious, not Christian) that agree with your statement, It’s obvious that you don’t have any.

                    59. I know you didn’t, and so does he know you didn’t know that the Spirit can get his influence into Newsweek. I don’t have a subscription to what is written in Newsweek, as he doesn’t, but we can read what is in Newsweek. He can even influence, as he did authors of the Bible, what is printed in Newsweek. Just because it is written in Newsweek does not make it not the truth.

                      You do know what to blaspheme really is, don’t you?

                      “Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” is conscious and hardened opposition to the truth, “because the Spirit is truth” (1 John 5:6). Conscious and hardened resistance to the truth leads man away from humility and repentance, and without repentance there can be no forgiveness.

                      You don’t know the truth and there is no better, or sure, source to be led into all truth than the Spirit. You, instead, make fun of those who seem as invalids to you, because they insist they see, know and relate with he you cannot see. Jesus, the Christ, never does that to anyone, including you. We don’t find your blindness and hardened heart humorous.

                    60. Sorry. You are wrong as usual. I’m olny sharing because this is important.

                      Blasphemy against the Spirit leads to the Second Death. Since you don’t understand the First Death you don’t understand the Second.

                      I am safe and so are you but for different reasons.

                    61. Help me Bob, what is the “First Death”? Please, show me where this is explained in the Bible, any version.

                    62. My Lord and Brother disagrees with you.

                      Until, if ever, you are born again of God, living with the
                      Spirit of truth in you, you are not capable of making disciples of all nations, filling them with the Spirit of truth in the name of the heavenly Father and the Word of God (Matthew 12:19).

                      Until the Spirit gives you birth to spirit (John 3:6) you will not see the kingdom of God (John 3:3), so says Jesus, the Messiah, the one Instructor to all his siblings on earth who see the kingdom of God today. Only those in the spirit will know life eternal, no death. All who never are born to spirit will die to all time and be forgotten. That is the promise directly from the mouth of the Word of God living in all children of God on earth, and they in him.

                      Your lack of humility, gloating in your superior ignorance, only makes it clear, to those who know Christ Jesus in them, and they in him, how limited purely carnal awareness and influence is.

                      I did not ask you to teach me, I asked you to show me where to find what is the first death, because you said you were only sharing because it is important. I agree, so share, please.

                    63. Like casting pearls at swine.
                      I marvel at how he cites Scripture, that he doesn’t understand, when he claims it isn’t the word of God.

                    64. When Herm said fathers can kill their children and used God and Abraham as examples it occurred to me he is just trying to continue the debate not add to it.

                    65. Yes. He wrote 12 paragraphs in response to your comments showing his frustration.

                      But make no mistake Herm does not beileve in the bible. He believes he is hot-wired into the Spirit of God and gets his beliefs directly unlike the rest of us.I suspect he gets his responses from the Satan, the god of this world, and believes they come from God.

                    66. Bob, you deny Scripture as written. You are trapped in your allegiance to the modern day Sadducees, Pharisees and Herods.

                      Mark 3:29 might have something to do with your misrepresentation of “hot-wired into the Spirit of God.” I never even implied that I get my “beliefs” from God in any form. I’ve shared that I am born again of spirit, like many before me. The lessons I am taught are not beliefs, as that appears that is all you have of God. I am taught truth as I can bear.

                      Why do you consider yourself an authority of God’s will when you acknowledge you don’t know the one who appeared as a dove, remained with Christ, and led him into the wilderness?

                      You have nothing but belief as a relationship with God. Can’t you see the difference?

                    67. If you can get a liberal to talk, he will eventually hang himself with his own words. Herm actually said that the Bible isn’t the word of God. This explains why his rants are so disjointed and incoherent. He thinks he can bamboozle people by citing Scripture while being oblivious to the irrelevance to the subject at hand.

                      Yes, I have him rattled. You can rattle a liberal by never letting him get off the subject. Just keep repeating his error over and over again to him, and they will eventually lose it.

                    68. darel, you wrote, “No, you are wrong, it’s from Romans, chapter 1. I’m not a Catholic but if you say they believe in a conscience, then they got one right.

                      You didn’t even open a Bible for this, did you? I can’t seem to find, in my open Bible, where it is found in Romans, chapter 1.

                    69. Herm, you got one right. Congratulations!

                      I mistyped, it’s the next chapter, chapter 2. You will find the conscience in Romans chapter 2 (of God’s word, the Bible, you know, the Bible that you deny is the word of God)

                      I noticed that you had to look up Romans chapter 1, to see if the conscience is taught in the word of God, the word that you deny being the word of God.

                    70. darel, I included, right from the beginning, the reference to “conscience” in chapter 2 …

                      They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

                      … but you were too busy refuting the first few lines I wrote, to study in your closed Bible, what I shared out of my open Bible. You were too lazy to read what came directly from the Bible to research, for yourself, what the Bible was saying that might be different than what your church, of many theologies, taught you in their tradition. You do not accept God as real and caring enough to be available to you without the guidance of your church family.

                      You have no credentials, nor credibility, to refute anything I say, boldly speaking the word of God fresh today, or what the Bible says (testifying to the Spirit of truth from those who knew him, 1,985 years ago). You are only repeating the talking points from the theory-ology (theology- the study of God from those who do not know God) of your particular sect of religious relationship. If your instructors knew God, as the living Messiah Jesus does, then you would be pointed to the Spirit of truth, in your midst, to be guided solely by him into all truth, as you could bear, forever.

                      My baptism by water, immersed and sprinkled, my certificate of completion from seminary, and my ordination, administered by Christian churches, into the service of God are no longer sufficient credibility or credentials to teach you what only the Advocate (helper) can teach you, and has taught me in the last 25, of my 75, years of carnal life.

                      I can only point you to where, within the book of testimony (Old and New) that you claim can be found the word of God, it says who and how you can be born of and in God as an eternal living child of God. But you refuse to trust God as being real and available to you today. Though you haven’t said it, I believe, as I once did, that you are waiting for God to come back before you will hear to listen to him. Good luck!

                    71. Actually you didn’t, here is what you wrote – I can’t seem to find, in my open Bible, where it is found in Romans, chapter 1.

                      I noticed where put consciences in bold type, so now you know that abortion and Homosexuality are morally wrong, according to the word of God which you say isn’t the word of God. You have no excuse.

                    72. Actually I did, two days ago,

                      Following the introduction of …

                      Where is it from?

                      I offer this for your edification:

                      … within this message:


                      … of which you replied, in your introduction:

                      Herm, anybody can copy and paste Scripture. I’ve noticed that you do it to excess and out of context. For example:

                      … obviously you were too pre-judgmental and lazy to read all of the “copy and paste” or, better yet, confirm the Scripture from your open Bible.

                      NO, abortion and homosexuality are not morally wrong according to your testimonial Bible or, more refreshingly apropos, the living word of God living with and in my heart, soul, and mind of spirit.

                      Caiaphas sentenced the Word to be crucified. He made his judgment directly from his conscience, without consulting God, corrupted by his sincere trust in traditional Sadducee theology. You do no less from your conscience, corrupted by traditional Christian tradition.

                      There really is truth available to you, and a guide to lead you, as you are ready.

                    73. You said, “the Bible isn’t the word of God.”

                      Can you name any religious group which would take you as member?

                    74. God, as their child born of God of the Spirit.

                      God is real, if this is so, who do you worship by relying on any of the differing religious groups of mankind for their judgment before God’s judgment?

                      If you show me where God has claimed the Bible as his word I will learn. If I could trust you to read your Gospels I could show you where the Bible says it is not the word of God by clearly stating who the word of God is. As yet, you are arguing only referring to your corrupted conscience.

              2. You say you support choice.The vast majority of women abort for reasons of convenience. The laws of this land gives them that choice. Choice means abortion. You support choice, you support abortion.

  9. I think Trump told Republican senators that if they impeached him he would throw Pence under the bus by implicating him and then its President Pelosi

      1. See, this is the spirit of the christian “Right (?)”. Listen to yourself and see if you sound like Christ as portrayed in the Gospels.

          1. Based solely on the legally recognized precedent of “The Spirit of love thy neighbor, sister, brother and enemy” versus “the spirit of vindictive spite of all others than you and yours”, I rest my case after this your public witness.

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