Benjamin L. Corey

Benjamin L. Corey

BLC is an author, speaker, scholar, and global traveler, who holds graduate degrees in Theology & Intercultural Studies from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and received his doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller. He is the author of Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus, and Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith.

5 Things to Remind Christian Trump Supporters During the Impeachment

The Religious Right has a case of amnesia, so here's a helpful reminder for them:

As the impeachment of Donald Trump unfolds, it is apparent that this traumatic event has resulted in memory loss for thousands of conservative Christians across the internet.

As a public service to my Christian friends on the right, and in faithful execution of my duties as memory-refresher-in-chief, please allow me to remind you of five critical beliefs you hold— but that have fallen prey to mass amnesia during the impeachment for some reason:

You’ve always claimed you believe leaders should be held to a higher level of scrutiny and accountability.

As a child of the religious right, I certainly remember all the many warnings you gave me around any sort of aspiration of leadership or position of influence– because we believed those in positions of authority or influence should be held to a higher level of accountability and judged more strictly (James 3:1).

In fact, when it comes to serving in leadership positions you have often quoted the verse, “abstain from all appearance of evil” as a reminder leaders should go out of their way to avoid even being mistakenly accused of wrongdoing.

And you know what? Conceptually you were right about the need to hold leaders to a higher standard– leaders, teachers, and people of influence, should be judged more strictly, because of the power and influence they have over other people. 

As I watch the impeachment unfold it is crystal clear that you’ve either forgotten this or just no longer believe in the principle of high-accountability for leaders. In fact, it almost seems as if you believe that once a leader is in power, they get a free pass from any scrutiny or accountability.

I suppose the good news is that my magic 8 ball says “it is certain” when I ask if you’ll be magically cured of this anomaly once a democrat gets elected again.

You’ve repeatedly told us you believe “but we are a nation of laws.”

Ahh, I didn’t expect you guys to flip on this one so fast because you just quoted it to me last week when we were talking about ripping kids out of the arms of their mothers and locking them in cages.

I remember the 500 times we’ve had that conversation– you insisted that “we are a nation of laws” and that the legal process should be carried out even if we think the consequence is unjust or harsh. In fact, what you’ve consistently articulated was that if someone wants to avoid the consequence, all they have to do is follow the law and be sure not to break it.

How times change… in a week. 

Locking kids in cages? We’re a nation of laws.

Investigation and impeachment for obstruction and abuse of power? An unjust sham by people filled with hatred.

You love to quote Romans 13 to argue that God appoints the rulers of a nation.

Funny thing: in that same conversation about locking kids in cages you told me that, “God appoints the rulers of a nation,” and therefore there’s no law except that which is established by God. And you’ve taken extra care to quote the next verse that says when someone rebels against the established rulers they are rebelling against God.

Ahh, major bummer you overlooked that whole three equal branches of government thing. Because when that other, equal authority follows the legal process to an end you don’t like, all of a sudden there’s a switch from “There is no authority except that which God has established,” to, “These wicked and evil people are filled with hate and destroying the nation!!”

Kinda weird how Paul should have written that God established “some of the rulers.” Pesky Bible mistakes, you know?

You’ve also long claimed from Romans 13 that only lawbreakers need to fear those charged with enforcing the law.

Remember all those conversations we’ve had about unarmed black people getting shot by police? Seems the standard line you’ve always had was again from Romans 13, this time verse 2:

“For those in authority hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right..”

Here’s an inconvenient truth (throwback Thursday h/t to Al Gore): the US House of Representatives is, according to that verse you said you believe, one such “God-appointed law-enforcement authority.” To use your argument from just a few weeks ago would mean you can relax with no cause for fear or concern… because if he hasn’t done anything wrong, there’s nothing to get a wild hair about.

So why be so uptight about an investigation and trial?

You’ve consistently argued that Christians have a biblical obligation to respect and obey those appointed over us.

Because it’s right there at the beginning of your favorite chapter of the Bible: “Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God… whoever rebells against those authorities is rebelling against God.”

I can’t count the times or even list the number of different contexts in which you’ve consistently said that resisting appointed rulers is a sin.

So riddle me this: If rebelling against established rulers is rebellion against God, and if the constitution establishes congress as the appointed rulers who hold the executive branch responsible, has not Trump rebelled against God for obstructing congress from fulfilling their appointed duties?

That question unfortunately leaves you with two choices: You can choose to continue to believe that verse like you did last week– and thus, admit Trump’s rebellion was rebellion against God; or, you can just be an inconsistent hypocrite who is willing to sacrifice their beliefs for partisan loyalty.

You have two choices… and there’s only two choices.

So, there you go my conservative friends. I know amnesia sucks, but I promise I’m here for the long run and will keep reminding you of all those things you taught me… but now seem to have forgotten.

In this era of impeachment, may you find freedom from this amnesia and remember that you believe we are a nation of laws, that leaders must be held to the most strict level of accountability; that you believe the appointed rulers are established by God and not to be feared by the righteous, and have always contended that rebellion against them is the sin of rebelling against God.

At least, it’s what you believed before your guy was impeached.

Benjamin L. Corey

Benjamin L. Corey

BLC is an author, speaker, scholar, and global traveler, who holds graduate degrees in Theology & Intercultural Studies from Gordon-Conwell, and earned his doctorate in Intercultural Studies from Fuller.

He is the author of Unafraid: Moving Beyond Fear-Based Faith, and Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus.

It's not the end of the world, but it's pretty #@&% close. Trump's America & Franklin Graham's Christianity must be resisted.

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321 Responses

  1. I don’t recommend, i don’t think that have a good plot, everything is about lucky, because of this it’s boring and u need to turn off the brain to read. I can recommend others 10 betters than this one 🥴🤢 (my opinion)

  2. Actually, Mr. Corey, there’s only one thing one needs to remember during an impeachment trial.

    In order to convict someone of a crime, there must be ACTUAL PROOF, beyond reasonable doubt, of an ACTUAL VIOLATION OF STATUTE LAW. Not proof of being a jerk. Not proof of “questionable” behavior. None of that is impeachable. In order to remove the President from office, the Senate had to see proof beyond reasonable doubt that the President had committed an ACTUAL VIOLATION OF LAW!!!

    And an actual violation of law wasn’t even CHARGED in the first impeachment trial. “Obstruction of Congress” isn’t a crime. It’s a constitutional right for you or me or the President. Nothing in the law says you or I or the President have to cooperate with the police or with Congress. In fact, the U.S. Constitution says exactly the opposite.

    Of course, “Abuse of Power” sounds like a crime, but a specific example was never given that could be PROVEN to have been an abuse of power.

    I was never a big fan of Trump. And I was troubled by the way some religious leaders embraced him so. But nothing worthy of removal from office could be proven beyond reasonable doubt, so it really doesn’t matter what we THINK about Trump.

  3. Last week the Senate acquited President Trump from the sham House impeachment which infuriated the radical Left but showed the world our system still works. As predicted Trump’s approval rating is now at an alltime high and higher than Obama’s was in the same timeframe. This singular act of malfeasance all but guaranteed a Trump re-elction. Meanwhile the Democrat candidates flail away at promoting socialist policies that mainstream America won’t tolerate while the economy soars and is accelerating. Watching Democrat pundits trying to take credit for the ecomony is hilarious especially since they want to destroy the economy with socialism that they tell us is good for the country. At this point the Democrat trainwreck is so bad that they cannot even count votes in their first primary as the party insiders try to screw Bernie again while assuring us that the vote count is legitimate.

  4. Well Mr. Corey, since you think Trump should be impeached perhaps you can tell me where in those Articles of Impeachment is the list of Laws that President Trump broke?

    You know, the part of the Articles of Impeachment where the laws that broken are listed by statute?

    Good luck though in finding them because somehow they forgot to list any laws that were broken! Despite that major lack they still voted to send those Articles to the Senate but then sat on them for a month despite their having been so urgent.

    If you talk about being held to a higher standard look to the people that YOU are looking up to because it looks to me like they’ve failed you. After all, the Law of this land is the U.S. Constitution and it specifies that Impeachment of a President requires High Crimes and Misdemeanors and yet they didn’t note a single crime!

    The rest of your arguments are flaming garbage because you have missed the fundamentals.

    1. Exactly and well said. It is obvious that our President did not break any laws or else they would have been listed. What was said was a perversion of the phone call without citing any laws.

    2. The same Republicans that argued that law written in the statues had to have been broken argued just the opposite during Clinton’s impeachment because extramarital sex does not break any laws. They are on the record arguing that impeachment verdict does not require a law to have been broken.

      There are two strong arguments against the idea that the phrase requires
      criminal behavior: a historical one and a practical one. The history of
      the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors” and of how it entered our
      Constitution establishes beyond serious dispute that it extends far
      beyond mere criminal conduct. The practical reasoning is in some ways
      more important: A standard that permitted the removal of presidents only
      for indictable crimes would leave the nation defenseless against the
      most dangerous kinds of presidential behavior.

      One legal analyst used the hypothetical of Trump selling a state to a foreign entity, such as Alaska to Russia. Not a crime, but definitely impeachable.

      1. It took you a month to come up with that lame evasion?


        Oh wait, you can’t because the LOSERS who created those articles of impeachment never found so they had nothing to list but decided to proceed like they had despite the lack of anything resembling an actual statute being broken.

        1. Actually I did not see the post until today. As the Senators said when a Democrat was being impeached, a crime is not necessary, no statute need be broken ACCORDING TO REPUBLICANS. The fact the a Republican is being impeached doesn’t change that. So either they were wrong then or they are wrong now. If they were wrong then,they owe Clinton an apology. Oh wait…turns out that character is not actually a qualification for president, something else they insisted during the Clinton impeachment. So the Republican yammering is worthless now.

          But since you asked, the GAO says he broke the law when he withheld the funds. Given the number of government and extra-government figures involved he committed criminal conspiracy. Lawyers say he expressly violated the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 by soliciting material campaign aid from a foreign government. Or maybe18 U.S. Code § 872: “Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.” And 2 U.S. Code § 192, “Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers,” 18 U.S. Code § 610, “Coercion of political activity.” And more.

          If the House had listed statutes, then you would be arguing that a sitting president cannot be indicted, so listing statutes in the Articles of Impeachment would have invited a distraction. There is no doubt that the opinions of Trump supporters would be just the opposite if the president who did these things were a Democrat. You are not making good faith arguments.

          Trump may very be a defendant in a criminal trial when he is out of office.

          1. Then why did the Republicans actually LIST actual laws that Clinton broke as the basis and the reasons for his impeachment?
            Are you seriously going to argue that Clinton did not perjure himself? Because it’s abundantly clear he did.

            The GAO argument is BS because you have Obama, Bushes Jr and Sr, Clinton, Reagan… doing the same thing . Especially since the AID was still delivered ON TIME. As for those statutes other than the fact that they don’t apply since Ukraine has said there was no knowledge on their part that the aid was held up which since that was an internal hold makes sense and since the aid was received at the scheduled time. Also note that Biden is still not your candidate yet so calling that campaign aid is also ridiculous. Also refusal to produce papers and witnesses has been an ongoing battle between Presidents and Congress where the parties have used to courts to arbitrate, but now you want to just skip that process because you don’t like the President?

            You said “If the House had listed statutes, then you would be arguing that a sitting president cannot be indicted”. That’s a total logic fail, the rest of that paragraph is therefore complete nonsense.

            And may I remind you of bragging Joe Biden? If you elect him does that mean we should impeach him? After all HE has admitted ON VIDEO that you can watch that he did indeed commit the kind of extortion you wanted to impeach Trump for except you have NO EVIDENCE!

            1. Clinton’s articles of impeachment start on page 20 and end on page 23.. Not a single statue listed.

              At least Clinton was not a coward, and testified. He took a gamble and lost, but the GOP asked him questions that were none of their business. Clinton’s impeachment was a hit job. If a Democrat had done what Trump did, even the Democrats would have voted to convict because it is well-known they eat their own. See Al Franken (led by Dem Gillibrand) and Katie Hill.

              Every one of the points following that one is just as easily refutable. All you have done is parrot your favorite pundits. Useless. In addition, your comments are internally contradictory, but I am sure you know that. At least you recognize you cannot say that Trump is innocent. You only want to insist there is no evidence, but there is actually plenty of evidence.

              The GOP could have taken the high road and convicted Trump. Then Pence would be president. They squandered a chance to get rid of the political millstone around their necks.

              1. Get the right document the one you quoted is a Senate provided summary including the rules they adopted, the response by Clinton’s legal team, relevant excerpts from the Constitution and the like but is not the document passed by the House to which I have been referring.

                This is what the House voted on, articles I and III were sent to the Senate.

                This is the document that the House voted on:

                1. If you wanted to support your position, you would indicate where in that 450 pages the statues were listed. I could not use Ctrl-F to locate the statues because I have no idea what I am looking for. I made a manual attempt to find them, but but I didn’t come across any list. But it was an interesting read. Clearly if Trump had been a Democrat, the GOP would have impeached him with nearly the same articles they impeached Clinton: Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Justice.

                  Neither Clinton’s nor Trump’s Articles of Impeachment list statues that were violated. The Impeachment Reports of both Clinton and Trump do discuss various statues and their relevance.

      2. Clinton was not impeached for having sex in the Oval Office. While that’s pretty disrespectful to the Resolute Desk, it is not actually an impeachable offence. Honestly, I have no idea why ANYONE thinks that Clinton was impeached for an illicit affair. That was never the charge and it would not have been valid if it were.

        The charge was PERJURY IN A COURT OF LAW!! And, given that such perjury is seldom prosecuted in civilian life, impeaching the President for it may have been an overreach. But it was for perjury and not for an illicit affair.

        You’re no doubt aware that the Arkansas bar association revoked Bill Clinton’s law license over the matter?

        1. You are missing the point. No one is saying that extramarital sex was the charge. It wasn’t, but it was the predicate to the actual charge–lying to Congress-about the extramarital affair. Clinton should never have been asked the question. The charge was not perjury in a court of law. The perjury did not take place in a court of law. It took place in a Congressional oversight hearing, and with that, the GOP was off and running. The charge was lying to Congress .

          You are correct about overreach.The extramarital affair was the cynical pretext and thus the extramarital affair will always be inextricably linked to Bill Clinton’s impeachment.

          It would be great if a bunch of state bar associations would revoke the law licenses of a number of Trump attorneys, especially the ones promulgating the Big Lie

          1. I don’t know that you can say Congress shouldn’t have asked. But President Clinton certainly had the right to refuse to answer. If he had simply said, “You know what? Forget this. I’m not answering any more questions from you people!!” he would have been well within his rights. In fact, even in the 90’s, I couldn’t believe he DIDN’T do that!!

            1. You have a point, but to be fair, only in the Age of Trump did NOT answering questions or ignoring subpoenas become a thing.

              1. Perhaps therein lies the problem. It needs to be standard procedure for American citizens to refuse to answer questions from overzealous prosecutors. I actually had this happen to me once, where an overzealous prosecutor was after me for something I did not do.

                The best advice my lawyer gave me was, “Refuse to answer and let me do all the talking”. So I did. And the judge dismissed the case. That was actually the SECOND time I was charged with a crime I did not commit. Both times, I can thank the grace of God and good legal counsel for getting me out of it.

                So, I encourage and urge any American citizen, whether he/she holds a position of power or not, to refuse to answer questions from police or prosecutors when you know they’re after you.

                In this video, I’m not surprised that Duane James, a defense lawyer, gives this advice. But I am surprised that a POLICE OFFICER gives THE SAME advice.


                1. You take the kernel of a good point and proceed to muddle it with nonsense. It is true that whether innocent or guilty, everyone should take the fifth (regardless of whether they are “after” you or not). However, this is different from blowing off a subpoena entirely as Trump told his officials to do. Throwing the enforcement of a subpoena into court in order to run out the clock cannot be available as a viable tactic for evading the consequences of behavior. This was precisely the Trump tactic. Don McGahn’s subpoena is still being argued in court two years after it was first issued. The blanket- immunity- for- government- officials argument is preposterous on its face, and Trump supporters agree when the government official is a Dem.

                  Prosecutors are supposed to be zealous, however they are not supposed to prosecute without sufficient evidence that the suspect may have committed the crime. It is also different from Trump and his cronies obstructing not only justice but also proper oversight. Officials need to truthfully answer the hard questions, and if they don’t want their answers to implicate them, they should fuffill their duties while following all legal and moral norms.

                  The actions of Trump and his cronies were very suspect. The GOP court of public opinion convicts a Dem on far less while reserving judgment on a Republican on far more (See Gaetz). He and his officials needed to be held to account. You are very close to implying that Trump’s approach was correct. We all know that such an implication will be repudiated if a Dem is in the hot seat.

                  Both sides of the desk need to behave properly. Jim Jordan’s adversarial approach to Dr. Fauci last week was beyond the pale. The chair of the committee should have shut him down when he began rudely berating Fauci and using Fauci as a pretext for his own nonsensical grandstanding.

  5. Democrats are pitiful, stupid and evil at the same time. Their scheme to remove the President from office has utterly failed. Schiff is a giant liar completely obsessed with our President even by political standards. Brings to mind Esther 7:10 So they impaled Haman on the pole he had set up for Mordecai….
    Pelosi looks like an old fool. She has proved the axiom there is no fool like an old fool. And she has cost her party any chance in the 2020 election.
    70 million votes for Trump and 20% of the Black vote to boot. And women love Trump unlike what you may hear.

    1. I am so sad, that Republican senators actually can say that the House managers proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that “he did it”, but that it is not enough reason to remove him from a non-oversight-able presidential authority. His defense being that it is not impeachable if he truly believes that he, especially only him, is what the people need. Wouldn’t it have saved millions of lives if Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Putin could have been impeached in their first term for abusing their monarchical power, power not to allowed their political opponents, to demean (eventually imprisonment or to death) their political opponents motivated on each their certainty that only they were best for the governing of mankind? We have yet to see if the master of the art of the con, the champion of counter punching all who disagree with his omnipotence, will cost million’s of lives because a political party fears retribution. Bob, you’re highlighting what is most destructive of all Trump supporters, when you characterize honest and sincere disagreement with, “Democrats are pitiful, stupid and evil at the same time.

      1. Impeachment was strictly political. Not one Republican voted for it and some Democrats also. How is that sincere and honest?

      2. You must have listened with ear muffs.
        It was said, IF the Democrat allegation was accepted as fact it was not sufficient to remove the President. Big difference.

        1. You make me even sadder. You really believe that to deny congress any and all oversight over the executive branch, and to attempt to intimidate, by withholding life saving US tax dollars, a foreign nation into “announcing” a demeaning investigation into a potential political opponent, and to prove Crowdstrike (a Sunnyvale, California company) is the missing DNC server, is sane and not an abuse of presidential authority worthy of removal from office. Now that I can read it, I’m even sadder yet. Please, wake up a try to smell the truth.

        1. … so said the citizens of Nazi Germany, communist Russia, and the present day Russian “democracy”. Good luck Bob!

      3. The Democrats aided by their Media co-conspirators attempted a coup against our great President. It failed! So in thier despair the new claim is that President Trump is a King or dictator. If this is true then King Trump should execute the principals like Schitt and Nadley to prove your bizarre assertion. But mercy on Pelosi dictates that she should be retired in disgrace..

        1. Are you serious, or are you just so pumped up with riot fever and/or a lynch mob mentality that you would foolishly lump many different perspectives based on honest independent professional media research and one diverse opposing political party into your one enemy as co-conspirators?

          Did he do it? Does he lie? Does he demean all those who oppose his lying, cheating and demeaning nature? Were Trump University and the Trump Foundation found fully legal by our nation’s courts according to constitutional law and what penalties did he have to pay for each? Many more than Democrats, including Republicans, oppose your “great” President. Only a fool would continue to worship their “King Trump”. Only a fool would wait for him
          to “execute the principals like Schitt and Nadley to prove” my “bizarre assertion”. Only a fool would believe that impeachment is a “coup” and that a trial without available pertinent witnesses and documents is a satisfactory conclusion to any trial. The man did it and it is okay with you.

          1. The Democrats called (17) witnesses in the House and allowed the Republicans (0) witnesses. What are you talking about? The manb made a phone call which anyone can read – a perfect call.

            1. That is just plain bullshit. Like I keep asking, does he lie?

              Republicans could have called, and did 3, witnesses the entire time. Let’s get something really straight, the Bidens and Crowdstrike has nothing to do with the charges of impeachment. The charge of betraying his oath of office, U.S. national security, and the integrity of the country’s elections (Abuse of Power) and the charge of ignoring all subpoenas for factual witnesses and documents (Obstruction of Congress) in the pursuit of honest Constitutional executive oversight to avoid dictatorial, monarchical, autocratic, or totalitarian governing, removing all power to maintain a democratic republic (which, by past example, led to such governments as under Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Putin who each then did execute those espousing a democratic republic).

              The House Managers did present a case of which Republicans have said Trump did do it, but such abuse does not rise to removal from office. If these charges (Articles) do not threaten our democratic republic, what does? For the Senate to rule that they would not see any pertinent witnesses and documents in the trial portion of the impeachment process is the first impeachment, of any government official, to not have any new witnesses or documents. How do you spell c-o-v-e-r-u-p? The Senate, especially if they were 51 to 49 biased, could have called refuting witnesses and documents.

              Bob, that’s what I am talking about, not the obfuscating of the destructive defenders of he who clearly did it!

              1. What I said is accurate. All politician’s lie like as in “if you like your plan you can keep your plan.”

                You do not understand Impeachment but you you will understand Wednesday when the Senate aquits him forever.
                You have to comit an High Crime or Misdemeanor. The House failed to prove he did because he did not. My conclusion will be reflectd in their vote.

                I hope when Trump walks to the podium Tuesday night they play the theme from Rocky. Then I pray he says something to Pelosi that causes her to drop her teeth on the ground and run off the stage. That would be sweet.

                1. This isn’t a competition. The survival of all of mankind depends on enough members taking a serious responsibility for the whole, acknowledging that all are uniquely diverse from one another, and each has an equal opportunity to be constructive, or destructive, to the species of their birth. There were no winners at the end of Adolf Hitler’s and Joseph Stalin’s reign, there will be no winners at the end of Donald J. Trump’s reign. All three touted that only they were the salvation of their respective nations. You support a loser to mankind, though, for the moment, a winner for the Republican party, but not all Republicans.

                  Take responsibility for the consequences of the actions you are supporting. Bob, you will destroy this nation, seriously injuring the rest of mankind, sanctimoniously believing you are saving babies. What you are supporting will always fail because it trespasses against all the LAW and all the Prophets.

                  1. Yes it is. A life and death struggle between Christians and Satanists.
                    Killing babies has destroyed more of this nation than can be regained.
                    You don’t understand your bible anymore. It is obvious.

                    1. *** Acts 4:31, John 16:13, Matthew 23:8 and 9 ***

                      You don’t see to accept the one Teacher, the only Spirit of truth. Because you don’t you don’t understand the will of the one Father of God, nor the one Instructor of God, the Messiah, who together is the word of God that I am boldly speaking to you.

                      If you did, you would understand that mankind’s hording, 9,000 years ago, began the over population of mankind on earth.

                      If you did, you would understand that quantity of physical life is not of concern, quality of relational life is to God and Man. My Father’s will is that his children die a premature physical death in love for those of mankind who are not yet born of the Spirit.

                      If you did, you would understand that more babies are prematurely destroyed by periods of discarding naturally unfertilized eggs and wet dreams than any other cessation of potential members of our species.

                      If you did, you would understand the plight of mankind relative to climate change creating desperation in Syria and Central America.

                      If you did, you would empathize with all ask for legal asylum rather than support a regime of zero tolerance.

                      If you did, you would understand that there is a North, Central and South America that, if in everything, we chose to do to others as we would have others do to us, the United States of America would apply all our love to making America Great Again.

                      If you did, you could not support the lying, cheating and and no transparency of Donald Trump nor Bill Barr.

                      If you did, you would be instructed according to God’s word that our democracy failed its mandate for equal justice for all, congressional oversight of the executive branch, and striving for a more perfect union to provide opportunities for all its charges for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

                      If you did, there is much more you would understand as you could bear, but alas, you don’t.

                    1. … not to those learning with and in the family of God, as children of God.

                      Luke 14:25-27

                      Who are you learning from, the many families of Man, or the one family of God?

                    2. Your cite in Luke:
                      Luke 14:25-27,
                      25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple, has nothing to do with my comment. Justify it if you can?

                    3. Bob, one most important question, why is it that you ask me to “justify”, prove to be right or reasonable, scripture? I can present other validating scripture from the Gospels if that is what you are asking.

                      Do you understand that if there is only one Teacher to all students of God, as Jesus made very clear to his students, then the many differing Christian theologies (studies of God), doctrines and dogmas makes it certain that all but one study, at best, are not from that Teacher?

                      I have, previously, shared with you, validated by scripture, who that one Teacher of God is and that he can justify all scripture that is truly God inspired truth, forever, as you can bear. I will be glad to do so again, and again, as you are receptive.

                      Now, that being said, if you are sincere, and are not ready to accept the Spirit of truth for yourself, I will be happy to share validating scripture with you.

                    4. Very simple. That is the scripture you provided in answer to my last post.
                      I understand that Christianity does not have a correct understand of God in many things.
                      I have never found your validating scripture validating. Sorry.

                    5. John 16:13

                      Bob, then you are not “learning with and in the family of God, as children of God.” If you were, you would be guided in all the truth today as a disciple (student) of God living with and in you forever.

                      John 14:16,17

                      Christianity does not have a correct understanding of God” simply because it does not see to accept the Advocate, available to all of mankind since the curtain was torn top to bottom.

                      Mark 15:37,38
                      John 7:39

                      I can only serve to point him to you, in your midst, but I cannot validate nor justify him to you when you refuse to even challenge him directly. By your last two replies, you answered the question. You are learning solely from the many families of mankind.

                      As I said, this is not a competition. There is truth of God, available directly from God, or there are the many unknown fearing, superstitious, ignorant (who do not know the peace and love of God) that you are picking and choosing from as theoretical purveyors of facts they can only guess at. You trust the many teachings and traditions of fathers and mothers, wives and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life of carnal Man and do not trust the Messiah, the Father and the Advocate of spirit God. It is I who is sorry that you do not know them, as only they can satisfy your quest for truth.

                      The only wholly validating of God’s truth to you can only be found with and in God, not Man. Until you are fully filled (baptized) with the Holy Spirit remaining with you, forever without pause, you will not know the truth that you are seeking from me … and so it is written.

                    6. ◄ Matthew 24:23 ►
                      At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.

                      The God you present is not God but the god of this world. Listen to that voice at your peril. This is why you have wildly incongruent views.

                    7. Bob, I am not the Teacher, the Advocate, the Helper, the Counselor, the Spirit of truth. It is for you to read directly from your New Testament scripture …

                      John 14:15-21

                      “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

                      I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

                      Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

                      Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

                      … all I can do is testify to you, no less truly God inspired than any scripture in your Bible, that he is real and available to you, but only if you learn to hate the teachings of this world, who “cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him“. Do you see him, or know him, to accept him? I can 100% testify that I do and I have, and I would wish the same for you.

                    8. As you have repeatedly told us you do not accept the bible as the Wod of God. So why do you now quote it? The voices you listen to are in your head and they are not from God but from the god of this world. What makes you think otherwsie?

                    9. I quote the testimony of those alive during Christ’s walk on earth for your sake, but you shine it on. You ignore your Bible except in those sections that your church family teaches you according to their traditions in religious training, as were all the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, the Zealots alive during Jesus walk.

                      This is a testified to example, in your Bible, of the voices, the Father and the Messiah of God, who speak as one in the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit filling me, in my heart, soul, mind of spirit.

                      Acts 4:31
                      After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

                      That voice is silent to your heart, soul, mind of spirit (the image of God graciously given to all of Man).

                2. Uh, the Republicans said that the house succeeded in proving the charges but they were going to acquit anyway.

                1. NO, he was not acquitted by an impartial jury. There is not any further constitutional remedies available to save our democratic republic when the Senate will not honor the oath to God they took. God knows the truth.

                  It was not a ridiculous impeachment. You are only another who believes that because Trump says it, it is no longer lies. You too lie. Go away, you have no more credibility than he does. You are just as divisive as Trump! Yes, we lost … any further chance to be a more perfect union because of supporters of clear and obvious lies like you.

                  1. He was not impeached by an impartial jury. But he went through the farce defiantly and he was acquitted and Won again. You impugn the Senate like a dumb jackass. The Left has lost so many times trying to unfairly judge him that they are beyond a laughingstock. Better yet you and those like you cannot touch him.

                    1. All you are saying is that you support a proven criminal. If the exact same facts of the case applied to a Democratic president, you would have been first in line clamoring for impeachment

                2. Well, not really. The charges were not ridiculous. Even the Republicans admitted that the house managers proved their case. The Republicans in the Senate used their majority to commit jury nullification.

        2. All nonsense. Not a coup, but a constitutionally established procedure. And you guys could have gotten Pence as president, so again not a coup. Alsop the Republicans agree Trump did what he was accused of doing. If we were talking about a Democratic president, you would be complaining about the cowardly, sycophantic Dem senators who ignored all the evidence and did not want to hear witnesses in order to help them close their ears while they voted to acquit.

    1. Oh Bob, you are more of a true trial than was allowed the House by the Senate. You shall reap what you sow. There is no way, in everything, are you an example of doing to others what you would have others do to you. Why do you hang out to badger those who are sincerely trying to learn how to love all their neighbors as themselves, yes, even on earth today?

        1. Benghazi, after 10 million investigative dollars and 6 congressional committee hearings, we are certain, was never a Secretary of State (other than a diplomat died) problem because it was purely a CIA (Homeland Security) operation. The Republican congress did what they could to demean the most likely potential Democrat candidate for President. Maintaining her own server was only against her department’s policy, over which the President could have fired her, but the Barr Justice department, within the last 3 months, has cleared her of all potential crimes to the state. You lynch mob “lock her up” lackeys only embarrass the USA to the rest of the world. Pizza-gate wasn’t real, also, a Trumpite ruse.

  6. Obama first President to address Planned Parenthood – supported baby killing.
    Trump first President to address March for Life – supports babies living.
    So let’s try to remove Trump and elect another radical progressive like Bernie so we can continue our long slide into oblivion. Not going to happen in 2020.

    1. If the president as prolife as you claim, why didn’t he end abortion when he controlled all three branches of government? In my mind, his appearance at the rally means nothing. He has already proven he doesn’t have the will to do something about the problem.

      1. Abortion is settled law not subject to the other three branches.
        But this site will implode someday in the next five years when an abortion case come before the Supreme Court and Trump has already seated another Judge. Then everything could change.

        1. There are ways to overturn settled law. Congress passes a law banning abortion, President Trump signs law into law, SCOTUS upholds law after inevitable challenge. Republicans have had control of all three branches on multiple occasions and made no move to end abortions. Abortion is just a talking point to get people like us, who want to see abortion go away, to vote for them. This has happened twice since I’ve been a voter and I refuse to believe the Republicans have the courage to end abortion.

            1. The spirit of Trump, who believes that power is achieved by separating from and demeaning everyone who disagrees with him and his, is hated by all sibling students of the Messiah, who teaches power is achieved by picking up each their own cross in love for their enemy. That is the only reason why “they hate him” and will continue to seek to remove his representing them before the world.

              1. What you just wrote is categorically false. 60 million people love Trump and many are Christians who have discernment unlike you who are blinded by the god of this world.

                1. Christian membership does not make a student of the one Teacher of God, disciple of the Messiah. It only makes them students of their specific hierarchies’ theory-ology.

                  63 million voters had more sense than to vote for a lying fear monger who might actually believe only he can correct the problem from the USA’s first Kenyon president.

          1. stop wasting your time making comments. I will debate anyone with PHD so i need you to pester Mike Evans and Michael Brown and all the big names to debate me.

          2. The flaw in your thinking is that there has never been enough pro-life Republicans in the Senate, the House, the Presidency and the Supreme Court at any one time to ban abortion in America. Being Republican doesn’t necessarily mean you are pro-life.

            Will you vote Democrat for President? Will you vote Democrat in Congressional and Senate races?

            Old business – Do you consider it wrong for our authorities to arrest those who illegally enter our country?

            1. In public pronouncements they have the numbers. They just don’t do anything in practice.

              I don’t know if I will be voting for a democrat or not. Depends on who wins their nomination. I have no idea who is planning on running for congressional seats, so no idea would be my answer there.

              I think it is morally wrong to separate families like our government is still doing. I do not consider it wrong to arrest on suspicion of breaking immigration laws and releasing until an immigration trial or temporary separation when trafficking is suspected.

              1. You said.”In public pronouncements they have the numbers. They just don’t do anything in practice.”
                Nick, your link refutes you. Nick, your link states Republican numbers that are far less than enough to ban abortion, as you previously contended.
                You said, “I don’t know if I will be voting for a democrat or not.”
                But you know that that you will not vote for President Trump, right?
                You said,”I think it is morally wrong to separate families like our government is still doing.”
                Children have always been separated from families when their parents are arrested. It’s either separation, or locking innocent children up with their parents. How could that be morally right? We don’t know if the children who are with adults entering our country illegally are really their offspring.
                Nick, you display a serous lack of understanding when you believe that illegals who are set free will show up for a court hearing. They are illegals, they know they are illegals, they know they will be deported, and that’s why they don’t show up. We have millions who have not shown up for their court hearing.

                1. The numbers are there. Trump did nothing and wasted the opportunity (as did Bush).

                  “But you know that that you will not vote for President Trump, right?” I cannot imagine a world where the Democratic party nominates someone worse that President Trump, but hey ya never know.

                  The old US policy was as far and just as I can see one. What we are doing now is abhorrent.

                  Many of the people are here precisely because they want an immigration hearing. They want to show up in court and prove that they should be allowed to stay (most will fail and be deported). For those that don’t show up, I’m all for deporting them when they come into contact with law enforcement.

                  1. “The numbers are there. Trump did nothing and wasted the opportunity (as did Bush).”

                    The numbers are not there, as you well know. You even provided a link that refuted your assertion. You are in either is denial, or you are a troll trying to rile people up. Won’t work with me. I actually enjoy exposing people who are untruthful with me.

                    ” I cannot imagine a world where the Democratic party nominates someone worse that President Trump, but hey ya never know.”

                    So, how would Bernie Sanders be a better President than President Trump? Prediction, you will not give details, I’m confident of that.

                    1. The numbers are there. 9 votes is all he needed. Any whip should be able to get the president the votes besides the fact that he is pretty darn good at bullying them when he wants to. He is the head of the party. They follow along.

                      Moral person. Better health care. Following what the country wants with gun reform. Protecting nature as God commanded us. It’s a long list, but you get the idea.

                    2. “The numbers are there. 9 votes is all he needed”

                      Who are the 9 you claim? They don’t exist, and you will not provide their names.

                      BTW, You did not say why Sanders would be a better President, than President Trump just as I predicted.

                    3. Not sure how familiar you are with American politics, but nine votes is nothing. Mr. Thane would have no problem with that and the president’s tweets could convince any doubters.

                      I gave you lots of ways that Sanders would be better, and he is probably the worse pick out of the bunch.

                    4. “Not sure how familiar you are with American politics, but nine votes is nothing.”

                      Who do you think you are fooling? You pick the number 9 out of the blue, and you don’t have the names of the 9 that you say will overturn abortion. The burden of proof is own you, and you failed once again.

                      “I gave you lots of ways that Sanders would be better and he is probably the worse pick out of the bunch.”

                      Who do you think you are fooling ? You have not given me any reasons why Sanders would be a better President.

                      You keep showing that you are a dishonest man or maybe boy. You are immature whether you are a man or boy.

                    5. I picked nine because that is the number of votes needed according to the article I shared. You are correct that I don’t know which Senators would be part of that nine. It is the whip’s job. I am sure he knows which nine to pressure.

                      I have given 4. Would you like more?

                      Personal attacks show that you do not have an argument. It is considered a sign that someone is giving up.

                    6. Well, maybe you have me confused with somebody else. You have given me, Dennis Wilson, no reasons why Sanders would make a better President than President Trump. The record shows that I am correct.

                      You have said that Donald Trump and the Republicans could have banned abortion. You are wrong, There have never been enough Conservative Republicans to ban abortions. Just because one is a Republican doesn’t mean they are pro-life.

                      I have had the argument from the start. You are the one who has not proved yours. Who do you think you are fooling?

                    7. Mr Wilson I provided a number of ways that Burnie would be better. He is a terrible candidate, but worlds better than the current president.

                      I am not trying to fool anyone. For those that care about politics and those of us who wish to end abortion, it’s simple. Republicans lie about ending abortion and Democrats will limit abortions.

                    8. Again you refuse to tell me how Sanders would be a better President that President Trump. You obviously are not smart enough to quote your own self. Who do you think you are fooling?

                      You keep lying about abortion. You support abortion. Sanders and the other Democrats support abortion up to the day of birth.

                      “As president, Bernie will use executive authority to undo all the damage Trump has done to women’s reproductive freedom. This includes but is not limited to:”

                      “Undoing the Trump administration’s rule which allows providers to refuse care to and discriminate against their patients seeking reproductive health care.”

                      “Reversing the Trump administration’s domestic gag rule, which is a disgraceful assault on women’s rights and an assault on millions of Americans’ ability to get the health care they need.”

                      “Reversing the Trump administration’s global gag rule.”

                      “Restoring U.N.F.P.A. funding.”


                      Sanders on abortion:

                      “Guarantee health care through Medicare for All, repeal the Hyde Amendment and fully fund Planned Parenthood, Title X, and other initiatives that protect women’s health, access to contraception, and the availability of a safe and legal abortion.”

                      “Oppose all efforts to undermine or overturn Roe v. Wade, and appoint federal judges who will uphold women’s most fundamental rights.”

                    9. It seems counterintuitive so I understand your confusion, but a pro abortion Bernie will do more to limit abortions than a pro life Trump has. It reminds me of the story Jesus told about the son’s when their dad gave them a job.

                      I am against abortion in all cases. You lying about a Christian brother is unbecoming of a follower of Jesus.

                    10. I’m not confused at all. You have serious reasoning and judgement flaws if you believe that the Godless, atheist, Socialist Bernie Sanders, will limit more abortions than President Trump. You just indicted and convicted yourself with that foolish statement.

                      Bernie Sanders at his website says he will give free abortions. Free abortions! How many more people will get abortions when they are free Nick? Have you ever seen the demand for anything go down when it is free Nick?

                    11. The combination of late term abortions and free abortions will accelerate abortions to unbelievable numbers.
                      “Worldwide, there have been more than 1.3 billion abortions since 1980”
                      One more Supreme Court justice and abortion laws will be revised. It is out of control as you can read on this site and must be changed.

                    12. I wish I had your optimism about abortion being overturned. People become more evil every day. States break Federal laws and nothing is done about it.

                    13. There you go again. When you have no argument, when you have no facts, you just say something patently false.
                      Try again.

                    14. Abortions are going down, fact.

                      Abortions are covered under many Affordable Health Care Plans, fact.

                    15. The truth is never a lie. You support abortion by voting for those who support and oppose legislation against abortion. When you vote for the atheist, Socialist, Bernie Sanders you are voting for abortion, and even free abortions. He pledges free abortions. People always want more of something when it is free.

                    16. “The truth is never a lie.” Very true.

                      “When you vote for the atheist, Socialist, Bernie Sanders you are voting for abortion,” isn’t true though.

                    17. Yes it is true. At Bernie you can read that he opposes all efforts to end abortion and he pledges to make all abortion free. I already pointed that out to you. It’s true.

                    18. So, he would make them free and therefore, there would be fewer abortions simply because when things are free, people want less of the things? Try again.

                    19. The ACA gave more women the option to have free abortions. Abortion has gone down since the ACA was passed.

                    20. No abortion is FREE. You are saying that people have more abortions when they are not free and fewer abortions when they are “free.” You continue to write absurdities. By your reasoning a roster causes the sun to rise.

                    21. Nearly 6 million women of reproductive age gained access to abortion under the ACA. And abortions continued to go down.

                      Abortion is on the decline. Access to contraceptives lowers abortions. It isn’t absurd at all.

                    22. IF you really believe that then you could believe that the sun comes up because the rooster crows. The one has nothing to do with the other. How many abortions have you had?

                    23. You said abortions are going down because they are FREE!
                      Yes, that is absurd. Try again Einstien.

                    24. “You said abortions are going down because they are FREE!” Not what I wrote. Despite the fact that they are free, abortions are going down. It disproves your argument that when you make something free demand goes up.

                      I have had zero abortions and support zero reasons for women to have abortions. I do my best to lower the number of abortions.

                    25. (1)The one has nothing to do with the other. Abortions are not going down because they are free. Try again.

                      Let’s see how many times it will take for you to get it.

                    26. You and I agree that abortions are not going down because they are free.

                      I would argue that they are going down because of access to contraceptives available because of expanded health coverage. Why do you think they are going down?

                    27. So now you run away from abortion to contraceptives.

                      (1) IF you vote, you will vote for a Democrat who suppoorts abortion up to the day of birth.

                    28. I don’t know what you mean about running away from abortions? I have always been against abortions. Even before I was a Christian, I was against abortion.

                      “(1) IF you vote, you will vote for a Democrat who suppoorts abortion up to the day of birth.” Maybe, too early to tell. I can say for certain that whoever I vote for will lower the number of abortions in America.

                    29. (2) IF you vote, you will vote for a Democrat who supports abortion up to the day of birth.

                    30. (2) IF you vote, you will vote for a Democrat who supports abortion up to the day of birth.

                    31. You obviously are ignorant of how laws are passed by Congress. There are not enough Conservative votes to ban the murder of the unborn. If you are able to vote you will vote for those who support abortion up to the moment of birth. You have just made it known that you would vote for Sanders. You support the murder of the unborn.

                      No, you have not given me any reasons why Sanders would be a better President than President Trump. Who do you think you are fooling with that lie?

                    32. I am pretty familiar with how laws are passed. I’ve explained exactly like it could have gone if the president wanted to end abortion .

                      I do not support abortion. I am part of the 15% that are against abortion in all cases. My mom’s doctor told her to abort me or we both would die. He was wrong on both counts. I feel pretty strongly about abortion. Sanders will do more to help the poor have access to healthcare which will lower abortions. So of the tow you presented, Sanders becomes the one who will lower abortion the most.

                      You may think that having an immoral president is preferred to a moral president or one who limits healthcare is better than one who doesn’t, but I disagree.

                    33. Well again, you are wrong. President Trump does not have the votes to ban abortion. Saying that he does is just a cop out on your part to justify your support for abortion.

                      Sanders supports abortion up to the day of birth. Sanders is an extreme Godless Socialist who like all Socialists would only make more people poor. If you really care about abortion and what harm he would do to this nation you would go to his website and read all the Godless positions he holds and what he would do this country. He has no chance to become President of the United States.

                      Godless Bernie Sanders is as immoral as they come. Read his own words at his website and then defend them if you dare. You are either on the same moral level as Sanders, or you are abysmally ignorant about the man. A very small sample his immorality:

                      “Guarantee health care through Medicare for All, repeal the Hyde Amendment and fully fund Planned Parenthood, Title X, and other initiatives that protect women’s health, access to contraception, and the availability of a safe and legal abortion.”

                      “Oppose all efforts to undermine or overturn Roe v. Wade, and appoint federal judges who will uphold women’s most fundamental rights.”


                    34. Bernie would destroy our economy trying to provide free “stuff.” Bernie is still the true socialist but he has support. However, the Democrat party is trying to derail Bernie again. He won Iowa last night but they won’t release the results because they know he cannot win the general election so they are messing with the results. This from the Party claiming our President is trying to do that.

                    35. Could be. Most of this socialist garbage comes from the schools where the kids are indoctrinated. That has to change.
                      If he watched the state of the union speech last night he would have seen the hatred pouring from the democrats. These politicians are not rationale and have lost thier minds over power. Pelosi embarassed herself and her party. This afternoon thier humiliation continues as the Senate rejects their impeachment.

                    36. Pelosi and the rest of the demon possessed in the Democrat party have hanged themselves. The beating Trump is set to give them is almost too good to be true.

                  2. Were you born an αsshole, or did you come to be one gradually?

                    Your comments sound like the ravings of a lunatic. If you knew how ridiculous you sound, you’d die of embarrassment.

                    You’re probably some aging homosexual with HIV dementia.

                    1. Are you a Christian? If so you are violating not just the rules of this site and basic decorum, but God’s commands on how we should interact with each other.

              2. Besides, they were refugees, not illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants, almost by definition, do not present themselves at ports of entry as these people did.

  7. Democrats 24 hours of talk with no substance; orchestrated misdirection.
    Senators were not impressed with Schiff or Nadler because they could not state an impeachable case and imbellished constantly like they were talking to the public but almost no one was watching.

  8. your straw men destroy your credibility….you also assume a lot of negatives in regard to the President and take no account for the possibility that often one votes for the lesser evil and in that regard you have given no alternatives…unless of course you are going to become a consistent anabaptist….

  9. Luke 10:27, Matthew 7:12, 22:37-40

    ALL the law and ALL the prophets! … anything else and we have no promise, from the Messiah, that we will live.

    How well does President D. J. Trump compare when held to the higher standards that ALL children of God are led to? … action by action … rally by rally … tweet by tweet … counter punch by counter punch …

    1. Ecclesiastes 7:5-14
      (5) It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise
      Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
      (6) For like the crackling of thorns under a pot,
      So is the laughter of the fool.
      This also is vanity.

          1. No, Bob, coming from you is an example that it doesn’t work that way for those who follow Christianity. Which Jewish group, during the time of Christ on earth, who all claimed by their theology to be servants and followers of God, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, or the Zealots, actually knew God personally? How large was the group who knew Christ, the Son of God, personally, his disciples, compared to the other groups?

            No, Bob, you don’t follow Christ, or God, for by your fruit we know the vine you follow; one of the many Christian theologies, the theoretical studies of God and Christ.

            You know God as well as did a very sincere Sadduccee, the high priest of Judaism Caiaphas, who sentenced the only begotten Son of Man to death, because he would not say he was not the Son of God.

            1. You do not understand the bible at all:

              1. No Jewish group knew God personally. How could they? All were cut off until the sacrifice of Christ redeemed man and allowed him to have a personal relationshipr with God.

              2. The Disciples were only allowed to fully understand after the sacrifice of Christ not before. Then they went out to proclaim the Gospel of the good news of the Kingdom.

              God is available to you. If you repent of your false teachings. But that is up to you….

              1. Bob, do you know why it is significantly mentioned, in the Gospels, that the curtain was torn (rent) top to bottom? This is not a trick question. Please, tell me what you know of the curtain (veil).

                I’ll get you started by referring you to Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45, Hebrews 6:19, 9:3, 10:20.

                I have studied and taught the Sanctuary and Temple, yet it is you who accuse me of not understanding the “bible” at all. All my studies from the schools of Man pale to what I have learned from the one Teacher of God, who for nearly 2,000 years now is no longer just available to the high priest of those no longer with the authority sitting in Moses’ seat. There is only one with all authority given for the the children of God on earth and in heaven. He is the tried and true Instructor, and with the Father, telling the Teacher what say.

                Before you forget, tell me the significance of the curtain torn top to bottom. Clue: there was for certain one man who could have known God personally. Who was he? What was his name? What did he do to fulfill Jesus’ glory?

                1. I already answered your question in my last post:

                  1. No Jewish group knew God personally. How could they? All were cut off until the sacrifice of Christ redeemed man and allowed him to have a personal relationshipr with God.

                  But your answer tells me what i was afraid of, that is, you don’t believe Jesus was God and is with God in heaven.


                    The high priest Caiaphas was allowed behind the curtain of the Most Holy (Holy of Holies) to personally communicate with the “presence of God”. The “presence of God” dwelled in the Holy of Holies until the curtain was torn top to bottom. Caiaphas had the authority and opportunity to know God personally.

                    The “presence of God” was, according to gospel testimony, witnessed as like a dove to have come down to stay with Jesus until Jesus gave up his spirit (the power of temple was torn down, top to bottom, in that moment, and rebuilt in three days). There very much was a Jewish group, you must agree, who knew God personally, all the disciples of the Messiah. If all the scripture in your Bible was inspired by the “presence of God” then every author knew God personally.

                    What gives you the authority of truth to be able to write, “But your answer tells me what i was afraid of, that is, you don’t believe Jesus was God and is with God in heaven”? I personally know, accept and apply the truth written in John 14:15-21, 15:26,27 and 16:12-15. It is you who does not see to know and accept the Spirit of truth as a person of God who can, as God, solely (one with the Father and the Messiah) guide you into all truth forever. It is you who, today, is not personally growing and learning as child of God, filled with and born of the Spirit. I show you where it is written in your Bible, which you claim gives you the wisdom and authority to speak for God, with whom you cannot hear to share in your heart and mind spirit, and you judge me as not believing Jesus “is” God. You do not know you will live because you personally do not know Jesus lives to influence all his infant siblings today and has every moment for nearly 2,000 years now.

                    Matthew 26:65-68

                    Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”

                    “He is worthy of death,” they answered.

                    Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?”

                    Bob, here you sound more like Caiaphas and his council passing judgment against God, than you sound like a child of God learning from the one Teacher, the one Instructor and the one Father sharing personally with God.

                    The “presence of God” no longer resides behind the curtain of the Most Holy (Holy of Holies). The “presence of God” is available to you to personally ask for the truth, even without you accepting him to live with and in you forever as your one Teacher. Ask him what is true, not me, and definitely not your church theologian/high priest who does not know God personally.

                    1. Simple. Because of what you write and what you have said. You seem to understand God the Father and believe in His Spirit but not that the Son was the Word made flesh and dwelt among us to die as a sacrifice for our sins sowe caould be reconcilled to God the Father.
                      If I am wrong just say so?

                    2. No Bob, simple is understanding that God, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the mother, and all children of God (sisters and brothers of Christ) restore nothing and offer everything. If you do not accept the Holy Spirit as your one and only Teacher you are not born of the Spirit. Adam and Eve are not real people, the Advocate is.

                      This universe is 13.8 billion years old, relative to our earth’s cycles of rotation around its sun, the earth is 3.6 billion years old, and the animal species mankind is developmentally 25,000 years old. All are physical. God is spirit. God, sometime in the last 25,000 years graciously made an image of their spirit in mankind so we can grow to be personally friendly (reconciled). The Garden of Eden (the Fertile Crescent) started 9,000 years ago with the first communities of ranching, farming and hoarding.

                      God didn’t sacrifice an innocent perfect lamb which provided sanctification and a covering of Adam and Eve’s exposure or nakedness. God will always want us to grow to be able to constructively and productively utilize our knowledge of good and evil, “simply” summed up, in everything, do to others as we would have others do to us. All children of God on earth today understand why it is our Father’s will that we pick up and carry each our own cross, as did the Messiah do for us.

                      Do you have any idea how old, knowledgeable, mature, and loving God is and how relatively ignorant, infantile, self centered and minute Man is? No loving mother or father of Man sacrifices a perfect child so that their immature and ignorant children can be reconciled to them. Why would our heavenly Father do so?

                      You’re still relating to the relationship of God to Man like it was thought to be 2,000 years ago, before we knew that the heavens did not revolve around us and that the earth was not flat … before we knew that the earth was not only 6,000 years old.

                      God is real, is eternal, is spirit, and knew 2,000 years ago many more things we are not ready to bear.

                      John 16:12
                      “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

                      Jesus Son of God, Son of Man, Son of Joseph, the Messiah, the Christ, not to be confused with the high priest, Jesus son of Damneus, has been sharing with all children of God, children of Man, on earth as each can bear, uninterrupted, for at least 1,985 years. The word of God is available, and has been available, for that 1,985 years apropos to each as each could bear.

                      I am reconciled to the Father, as his child, because I am living with and in the Spirit of truth. I am saved from the confusions of thousands of mankind’s different religious authorities, dogmas, teachers, theologies, creeds, idols, rituals, sacraments and disciplines because I simply only have one Teacher who knows the whole truth.

                      So, what sins of mankind relate to the sum of the Law and the Prophets, as well as all that the Law and Prophets hang on, would necessitate the crucifixion of children of God to reconcile Man with God? You don’t know the love of God who would carry their own cross in love for their enemy. You are trapped within the minds and hearts of mankind seeking justification.

                      I don’t have to serve or sacrifice anything for my Father’s love, nor did I for the love of my father and mother of Man, and I don’t have anything to give, but my love, that they don’t already have. So, yes, you are wrong.

                    3. So what I hear is you practice some kind of modified Judaism rather than Christianity? The one God stuff was a tell but I missed it because this is supposedly a Christian blog although atheists do inhabit it. Which is perfectly fine with me. But I believe I am more right than wrong.

                    4. I have only one Lord Jesus, the Christ, as my Instructor. I am a student of the Messiah living with and in the Spirit of truth. You are not or you would understand. You would crucify me because I accept to be a living child of God obeying the commands of he who has all authority on earth and in heaven today, and has for the last 1,985 years.

                      It is interesting that you appear to believe there is more than one God, which would be the same as believing there is more the one Man. Jesus declared that he was the Son of Man, in the Bible, much, much more than he said he was the Son of God.

                      So why do you believe I shouldn’t be on a Christian blog representing my brother Christ?

                    5. I didn’t say you should not be here.
                      It just occurred to me you are probably not a :christian.” Christ is not your instructor. He is your Savior. Crucify? Christ does not yet have all authority on earth as it still belongs to Satan and will until Christ returns to take it.

                    6. You just wrote, “Christ does not yet have all authority on earth as it still belongs to Satan and will until Christ returns to take it.

                      Oh Bob, really, I am so very sorry for you. You are not a disciple of the Messiah. Now it is clear that whoever is teaching you is not a student of Christ either. Neither of you have read the Gospels that quote the Son of Man directly.

                      Matthew 28:18 – Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
                      Jesus, the Son of God, said that over 1,985 years ago.

                    7. Wrong. Satan is still the ruler of this world and will be until Christ returns to replace him. Satan offered Christ this world whe he took him to the top of the mountain. Matt 5:4.

                      But when Christ does return to rule all of this Progressive Lawlessness will be done away with.

                    8. Bob, when Christ first told his disciples that ALL authority was his, in heaven and on earth, he had returned. You are being misled and it isn’t by God, neither the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit or me.

                    9. Jesus, formerly the Word of God, has come once in the flesh and by His sacrifice attoned for our sins so we can have a relationship with God.
                      I must have missed His return? Exactly when was that?
                      Note the Jews (who believe in One God) are still waiting for the Messiah 2000 years after He came.
                      Why do you quote the bible to me? You don’t believe in it.

                    10. Bob, I quote the Bible to you because you say that you trust the Bible as the inspired “word of God”. You clearly have not read the Bible in counsel with the Spirit of truth. You clearly do not accept that the Bible says that Jesus lives today, and that the Advocate is a real person of spirit God, is alive on earth and waiting for you, the spirit you made in the image of God, to accept him with and in you forever. Why would you believe omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God would create a new physical world to live physically on with mankind? That would be bringing God down to Man. God has made available to all of Man, reborn in and of the spirit, the opportunity to be lifted to God. Until you become a child of God you cannot possibly understand the eternal freedom spirit that will never be available to temporal mankind. You were born of water, physically aware and influential, destined to die with all your physical elements returning to whence they came. You must be born again to be aware and influential as spirit to live eternally as a child of God with the Son of God today. The Bible actually supports all that I just shared with you, if you read it in counsel with the one Teacher of God.

                      This where he says he is going away, before he died, and what the tearing of the curtain top to bottom signifying when his gave up his spirit.

                      John 16:7
                      But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

                      This is where it is testified to that he did return from going away, to give the “great commission” to all his living on earth disciples:

                      Matthew 28:5-20

                      The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.

                      So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

                      Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

                      Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”

                      While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.”

                      So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

                      Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

                      Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
                      Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

                      Baptize is to fill with the Holy Spirit, as in Acts 4:31, according to John’s prophesy found in John 1:33.

                      I must assume that you are not lying, in which case, we can only assume that you are misled by mankind who would make God like Man who is physical, rather than accept the offer of God to make Man actually children of God, sisters and brothers of Christ, who is spirit.

                      The truth is in the Bible for all who read without human tradition or bias, but cannot be found in any religious ritual, creed, theory-ology, dogma, idol-ology, sacrament or any human algorithm that makes spirit God like temporal Man. Children, of Man or God, do not know to worship their family founded on any of the requirements established by the churches of Man to be a beloved child of God, no less beloved by the Father than the Son of Man/Son of God.

                      Take your time. Go back over this until you see that any reaction that attempts to refute this truth, as I can bear, that can truly be found in your heart and mind of spirit (in the image of God) occupied and guided by the Spirit of God, is only from mankind’s authority, not God’s authority.

                    11. It would be helpful if you wrote in plain English.instead of going around in circles. It seems you may have some good points. The constant bickering and mutual judgemental attitudes are also not helpful.

                    12. Thanks for the “It seems” compliment! I do have a real life where I can learn and share with fellow students who know the Spirit enough to understand heart, soul, mind. Plain English doesn’t seem like an option to converse with those who crucify others with the Bible, as they’ve been taught, in ways they would accept to be crucified themselves. I allude to sections of the Bible hoping they pick up on it, some do.

                      If you have some ideas on how to express the Spirit to those who don’t realize that responsibility to be moved by a human conscience requires a knowledge of good and evil, I’m all ears.

                    13. Bob, you can only have one master, that’s biblical.

                      There is only one God, as there is only one Man, who by the grace of God made their image (which is spirit, not physical) in Man (Genesis 1:26-28). There is only one Son of Man begot by God, AKA: the Son of God. There are many persons of God; the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the mother, and all the student sisters and brothers of Jesus, on earth and in heaven. The Messiah has already come, left, returned and ascended in to heaven, never to leave his siblings (all filled with the Holy Spirit) orphaned in the Spirit.

                      Bob, you are a child of Man, as yet, not a child of God.

                    14. Not even a rationale response. There are not manyt persons in God at all. That would make God different from us. Jesus came once and will come again. You confuse God, Jesus and the Spirit.

                    15. Who deluded you to believe God is NOT different from Man?

                      John 4:24
                      God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

                      John 3:5-7
                      Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.

                      Man is one of whom all her members are born of water and will surely die. God is one of whom all his members are eternal spirit.

                      John 8:21-24

                      Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.”

                      This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?”

                      But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

                      John 18:36
                      Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

                      … and forever on will be!

                      It is no wonder that you don’t accept John 14:15-21 or Luke 14:25-27 as really applicable to you today. Jesus is real, is alive, and is spirit, unlike mankind.

                    16. Bob. God is spirit, period! God’s image is spirit. God made in mankind an image of spirit that, as far as I can tell, no other animal species on earth has. No other animal species shows an interest, at all, in spirit, nor worships any spirit. Ask God, utilizing the image of God in you, if God is physical, like Man.

                    17. This is why you cannot debate. You just do not read.
                      You repeated the Christian belief that there is one God is three Persons. I pointed out this is not true. You respond God is Spirit and deny the fact that God said, Let us make man in Our image? That is what God said. You deny it because you do not understand.

                    18. Go away Bob, get behind me! An image is a reflection of but not the object it is reflecting. God is spirit, physical. Man is physical, not spirit. I said all of God are God, not just the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. You are of one of many of Man but not the only one of Man. All who will live eternally, in the Spirit, do love the Lord their God with all their spirit self (heart, soul, strength, mind) and like that love their neighbor as themselves.

                      I never once denied that God said, “Let US in “OUR image, and you somehow red that I did. Neither of us were there, so I cannot witness either way, but I have no reason to believe any differently. I can guarantee that the earth, and all life on it, were not created from scratch within the equivalent of six revolutions of earth around its sun as it was understood 4,000 years ago.

                      This is not a debate, this is a testimony of as much as I can bear to know, just like the Bible. You deny the Spirit of truth in your midst because you do not see to accept him as your one Teacher. Jesus does not instruct his sibling students by debate. You want to win as a master debater, truth be damned, more than you seek to live in the Spirit of truth.

                    19. Progressive and lawless do not necessarily go together. There are plenty of progressive who are not lawless. And there are plenty of conservatives who are lawless.

                    20. Does every comment section have to be bickering between the two of you? Why don’t you guys address the points made in the post?

                    21. Age of the comments is irrelevant. You guys end up bickering in every comment section regardless of the actual topic of the post.

                2. If you are referring to the Sanctuary and Temple teachings of the the Seventh Day Adventists, there are some serious errors in that teaching because it was created after 1844 to try to argue that their failed prophesy of 1844 did occur, but it was invisible to us. Those kinds of ad hoc teachings need to be scrutinized very carefully.

                  1. Lucas, I have not hidden the fact that I was a SDA elder and a Presbyterian seminary graduate. If you followed what I wrote, you might understand that for the last 25 years, as a student of God, not founded on any corporate doctrine or theology (study of God), the “Sanctuary and Temple” mentioned is not anywhere near like Ellen White’s teaching.

                    All my studies from the schools of Man pale to what I have learned from the one Teacher of God, who for nearly 2,000 years now is no longer just available to the high priest of those no longer with the authority sitting in Moses’ seat.

  10. I was pleased to see Christianity Today’s statement yesterday:

    …the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.

    The reason many are not shocked about this is that this president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.

    1. Mindless propaganda – judgment without reason. Trump’s twitter feed drives the Left nuts because they can’t silence him nor should they. Let’s see your number one reason that supports Trump dumbing down morality?

          1. He has broken the law on numerous occasions. Pick one and that’ll work. Or we could look at God’s standards for morality and look at the long list of him disregarding God’s morality.

              1. So other people being immoral justifies the presidents immorality? I agree that our nation need to align itself with God’s morality much more than it does.

            1. Lawlessness is a continuing condition in defiance of God like abortion and same sex sex. Lawlessness is teaching men to do this as exhibited on every Patheos site every day.

              I would argue that half the men in this country have had a sexual encounter outside of marriage which they can confess and ask for forgiveness and the strength not to do that again. That is not lawlessness; that is law breaking: big difference. If you had sex before marriage you broke this law. I would argue that stat hits 90% of us. (Catholic girls included).

              So, again I ask, what is Trump doing that is Lawless?

  11. I think there’s a few strawmen being beaten here, but on the broader point, Mr. Corey is correct – the inconsistency of Christians who demanded moral leaders before Trump and now make excuses for him because they like him is shameful.

    1. President’s are not elected to be moral leaders but Leaders. Your opinion of his moral leadership is similar to the beating Evangelicals receive on these sites – completely judgmental.

      1. You miss the point being made by Doc Corey. People on the right used to care about morality in their leaders. Now we get excuses.

            1. I disagree with Ben on most every political point he has written on Patheos where I first encountered him; a lot of biblical points as well.
              People should care first about their own character. Character is subjective. Your question assumes you know more than you do.

              1. “Character is subjective” to God? No, He lets us know what is good or poor character. Conservatives used to be about good character. They no longer are.

      2. If you’re not interested and have never been interested in having moral leaders, that’s fine. But many, many Christians say that that is important, yet they make excuses for Donald Trump’s behavior. I can get how someone would hold his or her nose and vote for the guy, but it’s shameful the way some Christians go to such great lengths to make excuses for his transgressions.

        1. Donald Trump’s transgressions are very public because the media has been trying to destroy him with anything they can findin his entire life. Almost no person could hold up under this level of scrutiny; but our President has and does. Why? Only one reason accounts for this: God!
          As far as sexual sins – look at the Kennedys and Clinton.
          Financial issues – look at the Clinton Global Initiative.
          Claims of racism, bigotry and sexism are media driven and not real in the least. If they were true he never would have been elected.
          Claims of abuse of power – look no further than the Obama administration and the entire Russian hoax. The only question left is how many people will Durham indict and will it touch Obama himself. When Comey said his mother-in-law was worried for him, she was correct.

          1. “Almost no person could hold up under this level of scrutiny; but our President has and does” No he hasn’t. Also, Obama faced this level of criticism and come out as a model person.

            1. Hardly. Every network except Fox and all media is desperately trying to smear our president. Nothing like this ever happened to any president and certainly not Obama.

              Model Presidents don’t sign off on a counter-intelligence spying effort to try and unseat a president. This is really treason and it has been exposed. The actors Comey, Brennan and Clapper will be indiicted.

              1. Obama had Christians regularly smearing him. Our president isn’t being smeared. People are just calling out his actions. There is no need to smear. Lol.

                The only things to be exposed so far is the current president’s activities.

                  1. This is exactly what I mean. Obama didn’t say what the meme says and yet many will believe because of all the lies that have been circulated about him. Obama is a Christian not a Muslim. You are libeling a brother of the faith. The image of the president and the Bible is equally ridiculous. His lack of Biblical knowledge is well know from his public statements.

                    1. After eight years of Obama’s reign I would say he is not Christian or religious at all. If he identifies as anything it would be Muslim. The statementthat he is a Christian is just a label for his political image. Too me he is a godless progressive that attacked the Little sisters of the Poor just like he attacked anyonr who would not bend to his will. Self identification is meaningless.

                    2. More because it is so easy to hate him.
                      America was and still is a center-right country.
                      Obama, the most liberal president ever elected, caused incalculable damage to this country. It is reflected in every post on this site.

                    3. I really miss having a Christian in the WH. Someone who attempted to bring the splintering America back together. It’s going to be a long 5 years.

                    4. When Obama attacked the police in Cambridge that started the slide into lawlessness. If you believe Obama was a Christian because he said so that is silly. He is a self-obsessed narcissist and has no need of God which he demonstrated often.

                    5. agreed, the meme is ridiculous, but just as ridiculous is the assumption regarding the supposed faith of either Obama or Trump

                    6. Obama is self-absorbed with no room in his life for anyone including God. If you review any of his speechesyou will see the most used word is “I.” My opinion is that he is agnostic at best. But that is between him and his God.

                      Lies are circulated about him because many people despise him to the core and not because of his skin color but because of what he did while in office. What he said was “America is no longer just a Christian nation.” This statement is one of several thousand that he made which infuriated people. He was the most liberal president ever and people were not ready for it.

                    7. If you believe he is agnostic, why did you say he’s a closet Muslim a little over a week ago?

                    8. If you believe he is agnostic, why did you say he’s a closet Muslim a little over a week ago?

                    9. Hey Bob, Just look up Obama and Alan Keyes debate to proof Obama’s complete lack of Chrisitanity.

                    10. Thanks for that comment. I had forgotten about those debates.Some highlights:
                      “Keyes said he does not believe Jesus would support Obama because the Democrat backs abortion rights.
                      Obama said, “I’m not running to be the minister of Illinois. I’m running to be its United States senator.”
                      “Keyes said Obama displayed “ignorance” in his knowledge of the Constitution.”

                    11. “I didn’t become a Christian until many years later, when I moved to the South Side of Chicago after college. It happened not because of indoctrination or a sudden revelation, but because I spent month after month working with church folks who simply wanted to help neighbors who were down on their luck — no matter what they looked like, or where they came from, or who they prayed to. It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God’s spirit beckon me. It was there that I felt called to a higher purpose — His purpose.” Pretty eastto find Obama discussing his faith.

                      “”America is no longer just a Christian nation.”” is a misquote. What in the rest of the statement do you object to?

        2. without knowing and not wanting to assume, I would just say it appears the ax you have to grind has colored your argument against “Christians” of a certain stripe and perhaps the President

          1. Why would you put the word “Christians” in quotation marks. Do you not consider them fellow believers yourself? I certainly consider them fellow believers, which is why it bothers me so much that they go to such great lengths to wave away the behavior of Donald Trump à la “we’re all sinners…” so no big deal. If we did not share a faith it wouldn’t bother me so much.

            My ax is already sharp, no need to grind it.

  12. Look, Romans 13, if applied out of context like so many fundies do, would justify every genocide committed under the orders of any tyrant. It would justify the Jewish religious authorities and Pontius Pilate who had Christ executed. It would justify every possible form of evil. But, that clearly is out of context of Christ and his gospel. Does that mean Paul was an apostate? Not at all, what it means is one needs to read the entirety of Romans 13 to understand it sensibly.
    Romans 13 starts out looking like it justifies Adolf Hitler and Atilla the Hun—and the orange puffy blob, too—but it also contains verses 8-10:
    “8 Let no debt remain outstanding,
    except the continuing debt to love one another,
    for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
    9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,”
    “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”
    and whatever other command there may be,
    are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
    10 Love does no harm to a neighbor.
    Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”
    Which means that a ruler who sends children to concentration camps and so much more is a lawbreaker—“Law” here meaning Christ’s law, which always includes the guiding “spirit of the law”—which is God’s undying Love. Mr. Trump does not derive his authority from God, but rather, the “other place”, unless one chooses to view this tawdry episode as a teaching example to us from God, where God requires a villain to help make the point. But if one looks at it In that sense, one might say that the seven/eight headed “beast” is a servant, too—a necessary part of the drama.
    Jesus provided plenty of guidance in passages like Matthew 25 to help people figure out whether a ruler derives his authority from God or Mammon. As a matter of fact, Matthew 6:24 (the “can’t serve God & money” verse) proves that some forms of authority aren’t from God.
    And, have a blessed Christmas, Benjamin, et. al.

      1. con·cen·tra·tion camp
        /ˌkänsənˈtrāSHən ˈˌkamp/
        a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.

            1. “THE FACTS: The photos, taken by The Associated Press, were from 2014, during the Obama administration, but were presented by liberal activists as if they showed the effects of Trump’s immigration policy now.”

              Trump tweeted: “Democrats mistakenly tweet 2014 pictures from Obama’s term showing children from the Border in steel cages. They thought it was recent pictures in order to make us look bad, but backfires.”

              “He is right about the misrepresentation, though it’s not clear that many prominent Democrats jumped on this particular Twitter bandwagon”


              I ask again, what is your point?

              1. The picture I sent above was taken June 11, 2019.

                Not to be mistaken for the June 18, 2014 picture misrepresenting Trump’s mass incarceration, with mattresses.
                President Trump has misled, misrepresented, and flat out lied relative to our drug trafficking, illegal immigration, and national fear factors from day one. Reality of our immigration problem is that most illegals came into the country on legal visas and through our airports. Most drugs still come through legal entry points, including our mail system. Most immigration coming to our southern border (the shortest and most protected border of the east, west, north and south borders) is due to climate change causing economic instability. If we wish to claim to be a Christian nation we have to compare ourselves to the Law and Prophets found in Matthew 7:12. Nearly 70,000 migrant children were held in captivity this year. Christian love is inclusive not exclusive, so much so that Christ, as an example, picks up his cross first as he would have others pick up their cross for him. Luke 10:27 … love your neighbor as yourself????

                I’m tired of lies berating immigrants, Muslims, and all opponents (including the fourth estate). MS13 gangs began in the USA and migrated to other nations, not the other way around. Obama is a natural born citizen. Secretary Clinton did not commit a crime (as just declared by Barr’s Justice Department), especially no crime as clear as paying women to be silent, fraudulent Trump University, and fraudulent Trump Foundation … and attempted political bribery of a foreign nation.

                So, what’s your point?

                1. My point was that “cages,” or your idea of “concentration camps” originated with Obama. The article I linked had a picture of a “cage” or “concentration camp” built by and used by Obama.

                  Now you wander off instead of telling me what your point was when you posted a definition of concentration camps which in no way applied to Obama or Trump.

                  I ask again, what was your point of posting that concentration definition?

                  1. A key difference is that Obama stopped using cages because he decided that that they were immoral, but the current president has no problem with it.

                    1. Four cites.
                      Not one I see that says Obama stopped anything.
                      Most of America is not on your side. If they were Hillary
                      would be President and we would doomed.

                    2. They all discuss Obama ending the practice.

                      I am not sure what you mean by side. Truth? God? I would probably agree.

                      If you mean Clinton, I am not on her side, but the majority of Americans did vote for her to be president. Also, we would be in a much better place in the world if she had been elected over the current president.

                    3. Walls do not work. Never have. There are cheaper and easier ways to enforce immigration, but all we ever hear is built the wall.

                      Don’t worry about it being the largest private land grab in US history, cutting off ecosystems, or the fact that it will not work, we want us a wall. s/

                    4. The wall won’t end anything. It is a waste of money better spent on most anything else like test kits or universal health care. Most illegal immigrants are actually visa overstays who arrived on a plane that flies over any proposed wall.

                      Um, the 5th circuit did not agree with Trump. Their decision was limited to asserting that the plaintiffs did not have standing to sue. That is very different than agreeing with a wall.

                    5. Actually most of America is on his side. that is what the popular vote shows. The Electoral College is a tally of of land, not people. That is why an electoral map looks so red. You need that much land to get enough people to comprise Trump’s vote. Places that vote for Dems are much denser so they don’t take up near as much land.

                    6. You are partially correct. Jeh Johnson said their regular facilities were swamped with unaccompanied children so they resorted to the cages. then they processed the kids and placed them elsewhere within 72 hours.

                    7. So you say. Please provide a link that quotes Obama as admitting that he was immoral for placing illegals in “cages.”

                      BTW, “cages” are inanimate.

                      I suspect you are an open borders guy. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

                    8. I went through 5 google search pages and all I can find are Trump’s lies on the subject. I am sure what Obama said is buried out in the ether somewhere, but I cannot find it. I did provide a few resources below about the change in Obama Admin policy.

                      “BTW, “cages” are inanimate.” And? Putting kids in cages isn’t immoral?

                      “I suspect you are an open borders guy” Nope. I do think that we can do a lot more to help immigrants than we are doing and that purposely separating families grieves God’s heart.

                    9. “I went through 5 google search pages..” “I am sure what Obama said is buried out in the ether somewhere, but I cannot find it.”

                      I say that Obama would never admit to being immoral for putting children in “cages,” and that is why you didn’t find anything supporting your assertion that he did.

                      Cages are neither moral or immoral, they, like all inanimate objects, can not be either moral or immoral.

                      You wrote, “Putting kids in cages isn’t immoral?”

                      They were put in fenced enclosed areas because they entered our country illegally, and for their own safety. You and others use the inflammatory word “cages” because you are for open borders, and don’t care about the breaking of our immigration laws.

                      “purposely separating families grieves God’s heart.”

                      But it doesn’t grieve you when parents send their children off to our country with human sex traffickers? Furthermore, scores of children are separated from their parents everyday when their parents are put in jail. I’m sure that it grieves God’s heart when parents, not authorities, are responsible for such.

                    10. I’ll start by reiterating that I am not for open borders.

                      “I say that Obama would never admit to being immoral for putting children in “cages,”” Sure. I don’t think that is what he said.

                      “They were put in fenced enclosed areas because they entered our country illegally, and for their own safety.” Under Obama yes, but not under President Trump. He did it as a punitive and deterrent measure. Absolutely abhorrent.

                      “don’t care about the breaking of our immigration laws” If I have to chose between a immoral law and what God tells me to do I am going to pick God. So as a nation we need to take Jesus’ words to the goats seriously. Like the Nazis we are not going to be able to hind behind the argument that it was OK because people in authority told us to do so.

                      “But it doesn’t grieve you when parents send their children off to our country with human sex traffickers?” What?! You are making too many assumptions.Of course I don’t want kids trafficked. I cannot fathom how hard a decision that is for parents to trust their kids with someone on the hope that they can escape violence.

                      “scores of children are separated from their parents everyday when their parents are put in jail” I agree with you that this isn’t what God wants and would welcome your suggestions to correct this.

                    11. “I’ll start by reiterating that I am not for open borders.” But that is the result when you oppose the arrest and detention of those who break our immigration laws by illegally entering our country.

                      “Sure. I don’t think that is what he said.” You contradict yourself, because you wrote earlier- “A key difference is that Obama stopped using cages because he decided that that they were immoral,”

                      “Under Obama yes, but not under President Trump. He did it as a punitive and deterrent measure. Absolutely abhorrent.”

                      “Punitive” you say, but it’s what happens when you break our immigration laws and enter our country illegally. This arrest and detention of illegals was a “deterrent” whether it was done under Obama or Trump.

                      “If I have to chose between a immoral law and what God tells me to do I am going to pick God.”

                      Really? God tells you to that we should allow people to break our immigration laws and enter our country illegally, and that we should not separate children from sex traffickers who claim that the children that were with them at the time of their arrest, are indeed their own, and that we should not arrest the adult, and confine the children until we find out that if they are truly related? I can assure you that the voice you heard was not, was not, the voice of God.

                      Do you profess to be a Christian?

                    12. “”I’ll start by reiterating that I am not for open borders.” But that is the result when you oppose the arrest and detention of those who break our immigration laws by illegally entering our country.” Not at all.

                      “”Sure. I don’t think that is what he said.” You contradict yourself, because you wrote earlier- “A key difference is that Obama stopped using cages because he decided that that they were immoral,”” No contradiction. I didn’t say that Obama said that he was immoral. That is what you added.

                      God says to take care of the immigrants among us. You are re-framing what God wants us to do. As a nation we will have to give account for what we are doing. So yes, I am a Christian. A Christian that is dismayed that other Christians care less about loving people or following God then they do an immigration policy.

                    13. “Not at all” you say. Why? You are for open borders when you won’t arrest and detain those who enter our country illegally.

                      You said, “Obama stopped using cages because he decided that that they were immoral.” So, where is his statement regarding that? I say it doesn’t exist. You couldn’t find any.

                      God does not say for America to take care of those who enter our country illegally. God does not say for America to open our borders to the world, and then to take care of them. How many illegals aliens have you taken into your home and provided for their needs? You keep revealing that you in fact are for open borders.

                      You said, “So,as a nation we need to take Jesus’ words to the goats seriously.”

                      “We” includes yourself. You determined that you are a goat. Please tell me what your fate is. Please quote Jesus.

                      You said, “So yes, I am a Christian.”

                      Please tell me on what grounds you are a Christian.

                    14. The Left and especially the Progressive Left are sick. How do we know this? They set up a “problem” and find victims of that “problem” then accuse the country of not solving that “problem” so they can make themselves feel good even though they don’t do anything themselves other than criticize. Of course they don’t take in illegals or stop flying in private jets. In fact they try to hurt the very organizations who do great charitable work around the world because most of them are against abortion.

                      Immigration, abortion, global warming and same sex sex are classic. If you don’t agree with “totally open borders” unfettered third trimester abortion, stopping all carbon emissions and forcing churches to embrace same sex sex you are: Nazi, anti-christ, evil, non-christian, sexist, misogynistic, racist, ignorant and deserve to be executed.

                      Fortunately we have a President who won’t put up with this artificial agnst and one who has the guts to tell them and the media and the establishment that we will have borders, judges who will enforce the law and prosperity while at the same time defending our allies and stopping the nuclear insanity in the middle East.

                    15. “Immigration, abortion, global warming and same sex sex are classic. If you don’t agree with “totally open borders” unfettered third trimester abortion, stopping all carbon emissions and forcing churches to embrace same sex sex you are: Nazi, anti-christ, evil, non-christian, sexist, misogynistic, racist, ignorant and deserve to be executed” This isn’t at all true. I am sorry that you feel so attacked by your countryman.

                      “defending our allies” Where has he done this? Our allies are freaked out that there is someone with such unstable foreign policy in the WH. I think they are in a put your head down and wait it out mode.

                    16. Not sure what you mean about Kerry.

                      It isn’t bad as long as we keep an eternal perspective. 8 years under President Trump is nothing compared to what Christians in the past and else where in the have to deal with.

                      Plus, he has done a fantastic job of showing the world false Christianity. For that I will be forever grateful.

                    17. The world according to many on this site hates Christians. The world in general, and many on this site, has no idea what Christianity is or means anymore. Presidents are elected to run the country not run for popularity contests on Patheos. To say one presidential action is or is not an example to the world is meaningless. Each of us is responsible to let our “light shine” and not be dull bulbs.

                      “John Kerry is out giving advice to Iran about how to maneuver around what Donald Trump is doing, it’s insidious,” Ari Fleischer, the former White House press secretary for George W. Bush, said Wednesday on Fox News’s “Special Report.” “I don’t know if it’s legal or illegal, I don’t care about that side of it. It’s wrong.”…

                    18. “Each of us is responsible to let our “light shine” and not be dull bulbs.” Agreed

                      “:Presidents are elected to run the country not run for popularity contests on Patheos.” Also agreement.

                      ” To say one presidential action is or is not an example to the world is meaningless.” Not so. When he is held up and claims to be a Christian while denying salvation from Jesus and acting so contrary to Jesus’ teachings, he has shown much of what is wrong with Christian America.

                      It doesn’t appear Mr. Kerry has done anything wrong except upset Mr. Trump. We had a chance for peace brokered by our government with the support of many others with Iran. That has all gone down the drain. Now we must hope the President Trump, who has had very little consistent foreign policy, to broker peace.

                    19. Christians have given many in the world reason to resent them. It is an old problem. Even Paul talked about it and said,
                      “You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” ” Of course this was before there were Christians per se. Believers at that time were considered a Jewish sect, so Paul is saying God’s name is blasphemed among non-believers because of the behavior of self-identified people of God.

                    20. “You are for open borders when you won’t arrest and detain those who enter our country illegally” “You keep revealing that you in fact are for open borders.” Nope.

                      “So, where is his statement regarding that?” Discussed below with links provided.

                      “God does not say for America to take care of those who enter our country illegally” This is patently untrue and goes against the Bible. We are told to take care of immigrants.

                      “How many illegals aliens have you taken into your home and provided for their needs?” None, but there are none where I live. I was slated to teach them, but they didn’t end up coming to my community. Which isn’t to say that I wouldn’t, but rather my area has not been deemed as an area to house immigrants.

                      “We” includes yourself. You determined that you are a goat. Please tell me what your fate is. Please quote Jesus.” “Well done my good and faithful servant” ~ Jesus. I don’t fully understand how this plays out for individuals that are following Jesus in a nation that isn’t. At times in the historical record, God punished all for the nations sins and at others showed mercy because of the faithfulness of some. I can only be faithful and pray for God’s mercy on our nation.

                      “Please tell me on what grounds you are a Christian.” The death and resurrection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is no other name by which we can be saved.

                    21. Saying “nope” about being for open borders, when you are against the arrest and detention of illegal immigrants, is an open borders position. There is no way around that and that is why the best you can do is say “nope.”

                      “Discussed below with links provided.”

                      “We are told to take care of immigrants.”

                      So you say, with no evidence. Furthermore, you admitted that you don’t.

                      “None, but there are none where I live.”

                      How convenient! You could harbor illegal immigrants, if you were to make it known that you would welcome them into your home. You could take “care” of some if you truly believe that you are a goat if you don’t. Again, what is the fate of goats?

                      ” Well done my good and faithful servant” ~ Jesus”

                      Jesus never said that to goats. You are badly mistaken.

                      “I don’t fully understand how this plays out for individuals that are following Jesus in a nation that isn’t.”

                      Well, you could study the passage of Scripture where Jesus spoke of the fate of goats. I think you have just parroted something about goats that you have heard from someone else concerning illegal immigrants. I strongly advise you to not let others do your thinking.

                      “The death and resurrection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. There is no other name by which we can be saved.”
                      Saved from what? Are you a Christian when you don’t “care” for illegal immigrants?

                    22. “against the arrest and detention of illegal immigrants, is an open borders position” Not really. I think that the normal course of action where people are arrested and released until a trial is the best method.

                      I really thought that taking care of immigrants was so basic that I didn’t need to list the verses. I am sorry that I presumed people would be familiar with the Bible and that wasn’t very gracious.
                      has a list of verses.

                      “you admitted that you don’t.” Not what I said. I stated that I hadn’t taken any into my home and provided for their needs. I applied, but the federal government doesn’t resettle immigrants so not much I can do there. I would be open to suggestions if you know of any.

                      ” Well done my good and faithful servant” ~ Jesus”

                      Jesus never said that to goats. You are badly mistaken.

                      “I don’t fully understand how this plays out for individuals that are following Jesus in a nation that isn’t.”

                      Well, you could study the passage of Scripture where Jesus spoke of the fate of goats. I think you have just parroted something about goats that you have heard from someone else concerning illegal immigrants. I strongly advise you to not let others do your thinking.”
                      Jesus says that his followers are sheep. So on one hand I am a sheep and I fully expect to be welcomed into Jesus’ presence because of His actions and not my own. But on the other hand, he says that nations will be seperated into sheep and goats based in part on hos they treat immigrants. My nation’s policies fall into the goat category here. What does that mean for the millions of faithful Christians in America? I don’t know exactly. What I can know is that God has it taken care of and I can rely on his promises to me.

                      “Saved from what?” My sinful nature.

                      “Are you a Christian when you don’t “care” for illegal immigrants?” Someone who didn’t care about immigrants could still be a Christian. Just one who isn’t faithful to Jesus on this topic.

                    23. Nick, You keep talking of immigrants, not illegal immigrants. You refuse to engage me about illegal immigrants. Our nation takes in legal immigrants. How could you not know that?

                      Nick, illegal immigrants are not going to show up for a court date. They are not citizens, have no job, are not legal residents, and we don’t even know their names. How could you possibly believe that they will show up for a court date?

                      Nick, your liberal website just lists Scripture verses that have nothing to do with illegal, law breaking immigrants.

                      ” But on the other hand, he says that nations will be separated into sheep and goats based in part on hos they treat immigrants”

                      You have convinced me that you just echo what liberals have told you about illegal immigrants and the judgement of sheep and goats. This judgement of people occurs when Jesus comes back to establish His Kingdom on earth, which occurs after the Tribulation. This is the second coming of Jesus Christ. Christians will be taken out of this world (raptured) prior to the 7 year Tribulation. The goats are unbelievers, who have survived the Tribulation. These will be spend eternity in hell. These goats have rejected Jesus as Savior from their sins, not just because of an immigration policy. Liberals spiritualize Scripture and get people to believe all sorts of false doctrine.

                      Nick, Christians need to study the Scriptures, so that they may not be carried about by every sort of false doctrine.

                    24. The Bible doesn’t make the distinction about immigrants that you do. I’ll stick with scripture. The Bible isn’t liberal or conservative, it is truth. Liberals and conservatives in America get some right and some wrong.

                      ” illegal immigrants are not going to show up for a court date” I think that the majority do. Do you have evidence that suggests they do not?
                      “How could you possibly believe that they will show up for a court date?” Because many are trying to become citizens or at least be allowed to stay for various reasons.

                      “This judgement of people occurs when Jesus comes back to establish His Kingdom on earth, which occurs after the Tribulation. This is the second coming of Jesus Christ. Christians will be taken out of this world (raptured) prior to the 7 year Tribulation. The goats are unbelievers, who have survived the Tribulation. These will be spend eternity in hell. These goats have rejected Jesus as Savior from their sins, not just because of an immigration policy.” This is Biblical theory, not truth. The whole rapture idea that you put forward is a new idea in Christianity and I don’t think has a ton of Biblical support.

                      “Christians need to study the Scriptures, so that they may not be carried about by every sort of false doctrine.” Complete agreement. Look at that, common ground has been found.

                    25. “The Bible doesn’t make the distinction about immigrants that you do.”

                      Correct, the Bible never directly mentions immigration or illegal immigration, and I never said that it did. However, you yourself have used the word “nation” and every nation has boundaries and laws over each citizen of its nation. Israel is a nation, it has boundaries and those boundaries were laid out when God gave the land to them. Israel has a border fence and controls who may enter into its nation just like America, and every other nation. Try entering Mexico illegally and see what happens to you.

                      “I think that the majority do. Do you have evidence that suggests they do not?”

                      Do you really believe that an illegal immigrant is going to show up in court only to be deported for illegally entering our country? Illegals are constantly being rounded up by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement commonly referred to as ICE, arrested, and deported. Don’t you read or watch the news? Notice the words immigration and enforcement. We are talking about enforcing our immigration laws here. I have to ask, are you an adult? If you are a young teen, then I could possibly understand how you could lack understanding and be misled by those who don’t respect the law and want open borders.

                      “This is Biblical theory, not truth. The whole rapture idea that you put forward is a new idea in Christianity and I don’t think has a ton of Biblical support.”

                      You are greatly mistaken. The rapture, the Tribulation, the second coming of Christ, the judgment of hell for unbelievers before Christ establishes His Kingdom, is sound Biblical doctrine, not “theory” as you claim.

                      If you know how to do a search, you could easily find this out. I marvel at how you could even call such sound Biblical doctrine “theory.” I will gladly provide you with links where what I have said about this is in fact so. Or, feel free to tell me that there is no rapture of Christians, no Tribulation period, no physical second coming of Christ, no judgement of unbelievers and no millennial Kingdom, ruled by Christ.

                      A final thought, one has to be arrested in order to appear before a court. The arrest here is the arrest for entering our land illegally. So, your logic, or position is that God would not allow for the arrest of these. Yours is an open borders position if people can just walk across our borders freely, and our nation is obligated to take care of them.

                    26. The data show that the vast majority of these lawful refugees do show up for their court cases. Trump only claimed they didn’t as one of his usual lies, this one for the purpose of justifying his own illegal policies.

                      No, they do not have to arrested to appear before a court. Refugees present themselves at a port of entry, and then they get an immigration court hearing to determine whether they can stay or not.

                      You guys cannot have an intelligent discussion if you are not in possession of the facts.

                    27. You guys are talking across each other because he either doesn’t know or doesn’t want to know that the separated families are lawful refugees, not illegal immigrants.

                    28. They are not illegal immigrants. They are refugees who lawfully presented themselves at the border. Then Trump wouldn’t let them present themselves at the border, so some of them did enter unlawfully but only after Trump illegally blocked their lawful means of entry.

                    29. Trump is putting lawful refugees in the cages, not illegal immigrants. Trump is trying to deter lawful refugees with punitive measures. Then you make a ton of assumptions. If Trumps intention was as you assume, then kids would be reunited with their family members or turned over to relatives in the states within 72 hours as required by law. If the influx right now is so great that the processing requires more than 72 hours, then fine, but it should not take months and months and in the meantime, we should give these kids proper care as required of licensed child care facilities and foster homes, including proper nutrition, hygiene, and exercise. Reports from kids who have been released is that they are at risk of sexual assault while in US custody. There have been more than 1000 reports of Americans assaulting these kids.

                    30. Like the Nazis is an inappropriate and offensive comparison in this context. Because the Left has been singularly unable to persuade public sentiment against President Trump they resort to comparisons to mass killers from history. Pathetic and ineffective except for a few on this site

                    31. “Pathetic” is right. You know they are whipped when they try a false analogy with Nazis or Hitler.

                    32. It is a completely appropriate in context. Rank and file Nazis were like “we had to…someone in authority told us to”. As a nation God is going to judge us on how we treat immigrants. We will have no excuse on that day just like Nazis didn’t at the Nuremberg trials.

                    33. People have such a hard time understanding analogy. Either that or they are deliberately picking an aspect of the analogy they know doesn’t pertain in order to deflect from the message of the analogy. Nick has told you twice that he was referring to uncritical obedience to authority. Maybe he should have referred to the Milgram experiments instead since “Nazi” seems to be a trigger word.

                    34. If you are doing a Google search, you are captive to Google’s algorithm. One aspect of the algorithm is that current events take precedence over past events. You can use good search terms to limit your results to Obama,and you may still get nothing but Trump. This does not prove that his assertion is false.

                      The difference was that of intention. Trump’s intentional policy is to separate families and lock lawful refugees up, sometimes for months and months even though they have committed no crime. Obama faced a temporary surge in demand.

                      “At the time, the Obama administration had been struggling to manage a major influx in unaccompanied Central American children arriving at the US-Mexico border.
                      As one former Obama official explained, “We didn’t have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase,
                      so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children.”

                      Also the kids were processed and placed elsewhere3 within 72 hours. The cages may have been erected during the Obama era, but that does not excuse Trump’s use of those facilities to separate families.

      2. The only problem with the phrase “concentration camps” is that the popular mind limits the term to the Jewish death camps and imagines that if Trump is not putting refugees in gas ovens, then the term describing keeping refugees in cages is a lie. People do not face the fact that the inmates need not be Jewish, nor do they inmates needed to be conscripted as labor or wholesale murdered. Objecting to the term is a massive red herring for avoiding the actual issue of keeping people who entered the country lawfully as refugees locked up.

    1. The evidence suggests he was unethical in his dealings with Ukraine and that he obstructed Congress. Why do you think it is invalid?

    2. The evidence suggests he was unethical in his dealings with Ukraine and that he obstructed Congress. Why do you think it is invalid?

      1. You didn’t watch the hearings to believe that nonsense.
        Also obstruction of congress by the executive branch not a crime especially when they fail to pursue their subpoenas in court.

        1. I listened, but yes it does seem that he pressured another country for his political gain and then obstructed Congress. Both impeachable offences.

          1. If it seems that he should be impeached then why has the Senate already indicated that the House has not proved its impeachment case? Why are there no House republicans that believe he did and why did three democrats vote against?

            1. Partisanship and a lack of political backbone to do what is right. I look forward to an actual trial in the Senate. I hope the president will not obstruct their investigation as well.

              1. The Democrats has to threaten many not to vote their conscience.
                The President cannot obstruct the Senate because all the evidence that exists is in the House’s 658 page report and it is clearly not sufficient else Ms. “shakes” would send it over.

                1. It appears that the Senate is going to follow along with the President’s playbook and we will not actually have a trial. Maybe after he is no longer president a criminal trial can get to the bottom of this.

                2. That is exactly backwards. McConnell and Trump threatened many not to vote their conscience. when one did vote his conscience, the Republicans proved that the ABC report that Schiff cited about their heads on a metaphorical pike was accurate. If there were actually any exculpatory evidence, Trump would have wanted the nation to hear from first-hand witnesses that he was innocent. That would have been the obvious way to make the Dems eat crow.

        2. I agree that they should have done both, carry on the impeachment as they did AND go to court for the subpoenas in spite of the fact that Trump’s lawyers were concurrently arguing that congress, not the court, was the proper venue.

  13. The whole thing about “God appoints rulers…” is that they leave out that sometimes God appointing a bad ruler IS a judgment on a nation. Just sayin’.

      1. If you know someone is killing children, you need to call the police. If you’re talking about legal medical procedures, you can shut your piehole.

        1. Anyone who refers to baby killing as a legal medical procedure known as abortion is demented, deranged and satanic. Telling me to be quiet is not your place is it moron?

          1. then i will.. just shut up you clown. your no better than trump supporters.. law of the land according to your imaginary book is gods will and abortion is tha law ofg the land.. are you denying gods will? why do you so called christians not even know your own book?

            Scriptural truths

            Ten biblical episodes and prophecies
            provide an unequivocal expression of God’s attitude toward human life,
            especially the ontological status of “unborn children” and their
            pregnant mothers-to-be. Brief summaries:

            • A pregnant woman who is injured and
            aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband),
            suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25).

            • The gruesome priestly purity test to
            which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort
            the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a
            right to life (Numbers 5:11-31).

            • God enumerated his punishments for
            disobedience, including “cursed shall be the fruit of your womb” and
            “you will eat the fruit of your womb,” directly contradicting
            sanctity-of-life claims (Deuteronomy 28:18,53).

            • Elisha’s prophecy for soon-to-be
            King Hazael said he would attack the Israelites, burn their cities,
            crush the heads of their babies and rip open their pregnant women (2
            Kings 8:12).

            • King Menahem of Israel destroyed
            Tiphsah (also called Tappuah) and the surrounding towns, killing all
            residents and ripping open pregnant women with the sword (2 Kings

            • Isaiah prophesied doom for Babylon,
            including the murder of unborn children: “They will have no pity on the
            fruit of the womb” (Isaiah 13:18).

            • For worshiping idols, God declared
            that not one of his people would live, not a man, woman or child (not
            even babies in arms), again confuting assertions about the sanctity of
            life (Jeremiah 44:7-8).

            • God will punish the Israelites by
            destroying their unborn children, who will die at birth, or perish in
            the womb, or never even be conceived (Hosea 9:10-16).

            • For rebelling against God, Samaria’s
            people will be killed, their babies will be dashed to death against the
            ground, and their pregnant women will be ripped open with a sword
            (Hosea 13:16).

            • Jesus did not express any special
            concern for unborn children during the anticipated end times: “Woe to
            pregnant women and those who are nursing” (Matthew 24:19).

            1. Anecdotal citations are not empirical evidence you fool. Show us where in “our Book” it says that we should kill God’s creation to satisy our own lusts? Suggesting, gruesome and indicating have no weight in your faux argument you modern Pharisee. Notice carefully the list of things God has done to those who disobey Him and repent of your rebellious attitude before something bad happens to you. If you knew that your last quote held the key to your salvation you could understand that you are the one at risk more so than the unborn babies that are slaughtered by the millions while you vocally support this atrocity and think you are wise!

              1. so your bible is anecdotal.. of course it is when it suits your needs.. show me one section of your bible that disputes what i posted. YOU CANT cause the only thing the bible YOUR IMAGINARY book says about abortion is when god himself is ok with ripping babies from the womb. The rest you make up as you go. dismissed. typical christian dolt.

                1. Wrong again. Jeremiah 1:5 New International Version (NIV)
                  “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
                  before you were born I set you apart;
                  I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
                  God knows who is born and who aborted His children.

                    1. Trying to implicate God in abortions is an indication of a character flaw and unsound judgment. God is the author of life and He can give it or take it as He wills. Man does not have that right.

                    2. Where did I implication God in abortions? Dont’ create windmills to tilt at;) What I stated was the God treated harm to a fetus differently than he did harm to a person.

                  1. Bob, at least you seemed not to take the bait “your [you’re] no better than trump supporters“. Every woman’s period, and every man’s wet dream, is carnal life before formation in the womb. My heavenly Father’s children, on earth, are only formed when born of the Spirit, not of the water.

              2. as for my salvation, you would be in hell long before me cause i live a good life and dont do stupid things or judge others the way you do. it hysterical that your almighty god who creates heavaens and earths needs pathetic little men to speak for him and to pass judgement on others.. you disrespect every commandment with the get out of jail free card of “I ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS” so you aklkl have free reign to do whatever you like. The law of the land is gods will you say, yet only when that law abides by your twisted beliefs.. is not gods law of the land in saudi arabia too? North korea where they dont have jesus? god you religious imbeciles are hysterical in your delusional rants. just shut up. I follow the bibles code and would get into a heaven i dont even believe in long before you ever would. But you creatures think just calling yourself christian gives you blanket immunity to be douche bags your whole life. A god would laugh in your face as we walked through the gates together and then he would slam it in your face. Cause i dont need a stupid book that amount to a dr suess novel to tell me whats right and wrong.. And if you need laws and a bible to keep you fro stealing, raping and murdering, thats a very clear reflection of the type of animal you are. the rest of us dont need a fairty tale to know the difference between right and wrong and we do right because its right while you do it (rarely you actually do) out of fear. rot in hell you hypocrite.

                1. Notice that all civilations adhear to most of the commandments especially “thou shalt not kill.” Your argument is without merit as it applies to killing unborn children.
                  As to you, when you pass no one will remember you after a
                  Based on your beliefs there is no benefit to your existence rather a temporary fluctuation in the timeline.

          2. Bob, war, murder, assassination, masterbation, and religiously treating half of mankind’s population as God’s breeding stock are subjects you could just as easily accuse others as “demented, deranged and satanic”. Protecting the responsible right for half of mankind to choose what to do with their physical and spiritual body is the Matthew 7:12 place for all of mankind. What gives you the place to tell others to be quiet and bear more into an already over populated species?

      2. I feared going into the 2016 election that no matter who won, we were bringing down judgment upon ourselves. God has a way of judging a nation by giving the people what they want.

        1. Not, in everything, doing to all others as we would have all others do to us has real life, carnal and spiritual, consequences without God’s intervention. God, in the example of Jesus, the Christ, lives first by the Law and Prophets.

          I teach my children to pick up their own cross in love for mankind, all mankind, merciful neighbor and narcissistic enemy alike. I do not teach my children to pick up their own sword nor do I send them to war.

          I teach my own children to respect the equal rights of others to do with their body as they would have others respect their rights to do with their body. I, as an example, support my children’s choice without ever demanding their will be mine.

          I teach my children that we are an imperfect nation of people attempting to build a more perfect union of Man, where all are considered equal in their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

          I teach my children that Christianity is a religion imperfectly administrated by mankind, no more perfect in the heart and mind of Jesus, the Messiah, than any other religion on earth administrated by mankind. In other words, I teach my children to respect the USA constitution’s protection of freedom of religion, including Christianity but not solely Christianity.

          Mike, your fear in judgment is surely not God’s judgment, it’s most likely your religious judgment. Do you teach your children according to your church’s will or God’s will?

          1. The judgment I feared was that of a nation that overall does not observe anymore those virtues you are teaching your children, the same virtues taught by Jesus, the Law, and the Prophets. Do unto others as you would have them do to you; love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love thy neighbor as thyself. I taught my child the same.
            That is a much simpler law than taught by many churches, yet often much harder to follow.

            1. Thank you Mike. The Lord my God I know fully in my heart, soul, strength, mind does not give us what we want out of judgment. If God did the same transgressions as mankind the punishment would be worse than we suffer for not loving our merciful neighbor and our enemy of Man. God has no other to intervene on a cross for them, that they might be saved from the full brunt for trespassing against the ultimate law of life, carnal and spirit. We each, even as some are now also children of God born of the Spirit, born of carnal Man are equal brothers and sisters throughout this earth. A sincere desire to become a more perfect union of mankind would be a majority striving to live by the Law and the Prophets as God has shared by example for us through the Christ.

              If you truly believe Hillary is as unbelievable, self centered and a con artist as is Donald then your ignorance deserves the consequences from the 2016 election. I can go over each and every reason Trump rallies called to lock her up and show that no crime (as has the Barr Justice Department recently declared) had been committed. Mean while, Trump University was a con, Trump Foundation was a con, and Trump paying off women to keep quiet was a con … all illegal … all crimes. President Obama was born in Hawaii, the USA, from the womb of a USA citizen. Mexican immigrants, legal or illegal, are far less to be feared than our growing White National groups. But the gun lobby and the Evangelical Christians got their judges so all is well. … and we got rid of those pesky regulations protecting our environment and health. Hillary does have her flaws (more of a hawk than I like) but, of the two candidates, she has an actual record of doing for others, throughout the world, as she would have others do for her, Donald does not. Secretary Clinton actually does understand, in her heart, soul, strength, mind what seeking a more perfect union is all about, President Trump has no clue.

              God does intervene, but not by inflicting judgment on ignorant and unruly children such as we. God intervenes as an example, as a counselor, and as a caring healer. God is not judge, jury and executioner as were those who crucified the Son of God for refusing to deny he was the Son of God.

              Yes, the law that God lives by is much simpler than the laws of our churches and nations. All of God follows the will of our Father in a perfect union; the Father in Jesus, Jesus in us and us in Jesus bound together as one by all love. I don’t fear God’s judgment. I fear mankind’s self destructive separatist nature of voting to do to others before they do to them. I fear mankind’s culture bias. I fear those who profit off of their neighbor’s loss. I fear those who are taught and blindly accept that capital (ism) is more valuable than social (ism) in the name of Christ. I will shortly die to my responsibility to this world. I thank God for the opportunity to live and die as a son of Man.
              I thank God infinitely more for the opportunity to live as a child of God, beginning now, led by the Spirit of truth.

              I’m tired. It’s late. I’m out.

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